site redesign, dreamwever and dhtml

Hi,

Looks good in IE5.0 You might think about another color scheme for the menu. The red letters against blue doesn't read as prominently as one might like; though I suppose you're not worried bout that right now.

Tried to launch it in NS4.08 and it would not load at all!
It only showed placeholders for the img tags, but the whole browser window kept "blinking" constantly. When I finally hit the stop button, only the header logo displayed.

--Papa

P.S. Did you do the dhtml using DW. I noticed a reference to "dynamicdrive" in your code. What's that?

Eek, that bright red text on blue is really .... ummm.... ugly. Just not easy on the eyes. Change it to white text, and then use red for the hovers.

This is definitely an improvement over the old version, but I still think there are improvements to be made. It works fine in NS 6 at 1024 (yes, the menu works and everything!), but I don't like the way the site is aligned to the left. Maybe you could center the table and then make the page background coloured (while the content are stays white of course) or something to add some interest on both sides at higher resolutions.

The logo really needs work - that serif font is just boring. Try something different if it's okay with your client. Maybe try to add something water related - like maybe some little wave lines or something as part of the logo.

I'm also wondering if it would be possible to re-organize the menu somehow. Generally accepted deisgn theory recommends that menu's contain 8 options or less (because the human brain can only remember and process that many choices), so it would be good if you could either consolodate some things, or organize them into several groups.

It is a vast improvement

As you are using Dreamweaver there is an option to report any error messages for other browsers > file > check target browsers. This is what it came up with for IE3-5 & NS3-4

Error The ALink attribute of the Body tag is not supported.
Microsoft Internet Explorer 3.0
line 35 body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" vlink="#FF0000" alink="#660099" leftmargin="0" topmargin="0" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0"
Error The LeftMargin attribute of the Body tag is not supported.

Netscape Navigator 3.0, Netscape Navigator 4.0
line 35

To Papa:
I got the code for the menu at dynamicdrive.com and then loaded the files onto Dreamweaver. I wasn't quiet sure if it was going to work that way because I noticed that DW has its own navigation creator. I haven't gotten that far with DW yet. Still learning how to use the program.
The menu is supposed to be functional in all major DHTML browsers- IE4+, NS4, NS6+.

Could someone else take a look at it in NS4??

To Megan:
You are right. The white text looks better as does the centered table. THANKS!! You're a dear.

The logo will probably have to stay. That is the logo that is on the clients business cards and his catalogue. Maybe in time I can convince him to let me change it. He is a booger to deal with. He wanted to keep the same buttons that is on the original site(front page buttons) but I said, "Eek!!!" to that one. LOL

As for the menu length...The client feels that "more is better" against my advise. The first menu that I did had 9 options but he said that it looked too square, sooo....we added buttons and buttons and more buttons. And he said that he had more to add. Eek again!

I am just now getting my first real taste of clients who know absolutely nothing about web design. I guess you just have to meet in the middle if possible and find that fine line where it will still look good and half-way please everyone.

I am not quiet sure what you mean about adding a background and still have white content area?? Are you referring to a slim border on the left and/or right? I plan to add something below the menu to fill some of the white space. Haven't decided what to put there though.

Any other suggestions welcome.

Thanks all,
disastermaster

I mean like what I did here:

http://www.gym-routines.com

If you view it at higher resolutions you see a black background on either side of the content table. I think it makes things look more interesting compared to just leaving the background white. It's not so empty looking. I'm not sure that something like this will work perfectly in your case but you might want to give it a try.

In NS 4.73 the menu is showing up and working but it's overlapping the content area - the content area doesn't move over to make room for it like it's supposed to. I can do a screenshot for you later if you want (don't have my FTP info here at work - but you should really download a version of NS so you can check yourself )

In IE 4.0 (Mac) there are no dynamic menus at all. Nothing, nada, zip, zilch.

In NS 4.6, they're there, but like Megan Jack said, they are overlapping the main content area (at least in 800x600). The text on them is very tiny and hard to read. The text also aligns to the top of the buttons, rather than being centered, which I think looks kinda awkward.

The "old" site had some really fugly buttons! You've already improved it at least 100%.

Your client sounds like a real pistol. "It's *my* site and I want it *my* way." Right down to selling a Civil War reenactment video alongside the fire training ones. "Walk beside soldiers in hand to hand combat. See field doctors in action as arms and limbs are removed." Oh, boy, that's some serious reenacting!

Quote: Originally posted by disaster-master
As for the menu length...The client feels that "more is better" against my advise. The first menu that I did had 9 options but he said that it looked too square, sooo....we added buttons and buttons and more buttons. And he said that he had more to add. Eek again!

Is site scope not a factor in your pricing? If not, it certainly should be! Make sure that the client knows where that line is and diplomatically point it out to them when they wander over it. Additional costs will bring the over-zealous back to earth everytime.

To Webmistress:
Thanks for the tip on the option to report error messages in DW. I am more impressed with DW the more I get to know it.

To Megan:
I see what you are saying about the background but I don't think that will work using the menu script because it is absolute positioning (i think that is what you call it when something is positioned by pixels??)I had the horizontal offset positioned at 5 but have moved it to 1.
Did this get rid of the overlap in NS 4.6 NS and 4.73??? Geeze, how many versions of NS are there?

To Gizmoid:
I changed the font size and removed the bold setting. Is the menu more readable now???

As for the Mac not showing the dhtml....I don't really understand that because I know nothing about Macs. Should I consider removing the dhtml due to the mac or just not worry about it???

disastermaster

Quote: Originally posted by disaster-master
To Megan:
I see what you are saying about the background but I don't think that will work using the menu script because it is absolute positioning (i think that is what you call it when something is positioned by pixels??)I had the horizontal offset positioned at 5 but have moved it to 1.
Did this get rid of the overlap in NS 4.6 NS and 4.73??? Geeze, how many versions of NS are there?

To Gizmoid:
I changed the font size and removed the bold setting. Is the menu more readable now???

As for the Mac not showing the dhtml....I don't really understand that because I know nothing about Macs. Should I consider removing the dhtml due to the mac or just not worry about it???

There is still overlap in NS 4.x.

I think the menu is a little more legible in NS 4.6, but the text is still kinda small.

And it's not the Mac that's not showing the dhtml, I can see it fine in NS (even if it overlaps your main content) it's IE 4.0 where it doesn't display at all.

This is where you get into issues of using things that don't work in all browser versions. Maybe it works in IE 4.5 or IE 4.whatever. I don't know.

You and your client have to decide how far you want to go to be compatible with older browsers. And where you draw the line and run the risk of losing customers who can't access the site because you used features that don't work in their browser. In an ideal world we'd all have the latest and greatest of everything.

Quote: Originally posted by disaster-master

To Megan:
I see what you are saying about the background but I don't think that will work using the menu script because it is absolute positioning (i think that is what you call it when something is positioned by pixels??)

Yes, of course. I don't know why I didn't think of that. YOu could try changing it to relative posititioning, but I'm not sure how well that will work since it could require a lot of tweaking in the script.

Megan,

That was a joke about me tweaking the script....right?? LOL
I would definitely live up to my username if I did that. About all I can do with scripts is copy and paste and change a few variables.

Can you tell me just how much the menu is overlapping the content? A screen shot would be great if you have the time. Maybe I can alter the table a bit to take care of this problem.

I have spoken with my client and we have decided to go with the menu and not worry about older browsers. He said that maybe it would give them a hint that they needed to upgrade and he has a point there. I try to design so that everyone can view but it is hard when you want to use all the new neat effects.

However, I did run up on a script from Web Ref that works similar to the one that I currently have. They are working on a new version that is supposed to be compatible with most everything. I will probably go with that one when they are finished with all of the instructions. Here is the link if anyone is interested in seeing the script.

http://www.webreference.com/dhtml/hiermenus/

I will post here again under this thread when I think I have the overlap problem fixed.

Oh, one more thing. Where can I download NS 4? I went to Netscape site and they don't have it listed there or at least I didn't see it. Which version would you recommend that I download since they have sooooo many??

Thanks for all your help.
disastermaster

It's overlapping quite a bit - enough to obscure the content. Will do a screenshot later.

You can download NS 4.08 as a stand alone - if you want the latest verision, 4.73 I think it is, you have to get the whole communicator package which is just a waste of disk space if you're not going to use it all. Different versions of NS 4.x can do things differently sometimes, so you should try to test on more than one, but I'm sure people around here can help you out with that.

http://home.netscape.com/download/0402101/10002-en----_qual.html

Hope that link works...

And yeah, I didn't really think you'd want to tweak the script!

I just had a thought. When you say that the menu is overlapping the content...do you mean that the main menu is overlapping or just the sub-menues?

disastermaster

Well, I just downloaded NS 4.08 and I am horribily disappointed. My test page wouldn't even load completely. All it did was sit there and blink, blink, blink. ARG!!!

I still need to know from someone if the main menu on the left is covering the body text in NS 4.73 or is it just the sub-menus that are covering the text???

disastermaster

Quote: Originally posted by disaster-master
I still need to know from someone if the main menu on the left is covering the body text in NS 4.73 or is it just the sub-menus that are covering the text???

In NS 4.72 The main menu does indeed overlap on some pages. Also, the menu takes forever to load (Netscape only)

Ah, I was so excited when I first discovered dHTML. Then I realized what a pain it was, primarily courtesy of Netscape!