REVIEW REQUEST: trying to change my site layout, what do you think

On your rollovers....make sure that in your style they are in this order. I had that same problem not long ago.

a:link
a:active
a:visited
a:hover

*Suzanne taught me that*;) (and if I am not right I know that I will be corrected.)

On the new version, your left nav links stick out further than the blue bar going down the left side of the page. need to fix that by making the blue bar wider or links shorter.

Looks like you are using two different fonts on this page. Or maybe you just aren't specifying a font for the links in the top box thingy. They look like times new.

The new one isn't bad but I actually like the black one better. Could be the fact that it has more content though. Maybe when you add more stuff to the new one it will look better.

Thanks for the css tips. that should help

with the menu on the left, i actually planned on the text coming out, because i would have to completely change the left side to make it thicker, but i kinda liked how it looked when the text came out further. maybe i will change it. I will check the text also, i think your right now that i think about it. Thanks

Hopefully i get a few more comments

Also, do you think maybe i should put something to the left of Luigi and to the right of Mario?

And i am talking about basic layout colors, and format. I feel like in this format, everything has the possibility to be more organized and flow better.

Hi, I would definitely agree that the left bar needs to be extended- it just looks strange with the text protruding from it. Also, the rollover color on the links is kind of hard to read against the blue background. You might consider modifying it to something like white.

I personally think I like the first one better as well... But on both designs, you need to change the font from Times New Roman to another like Verdana or Arial. Good luck!

Brian

i cant get ie to work so cant see what it should look like, but they dont align well in opera, the second one is worse than the first, but first one has very big fonts and big gaos mainly at the right, even opera set as ie wont display it right.
i'll try IE again later if i can get it to work

Ok thanks guys. Well i have fixed the left menu side, change the fonts, and also changed the middle background section, where the real menu is (home, cheats, walkthroughs, ect.) I also changed the rollovers to white, looks much better. Wow, i guess i should have had the 2nd one fixed better before presenting it, i regret doing it, because i was hoping i would have a better audience for the 2nd one. I just feel like the site needs more life, i just felt trapped with the black one. If i can upload the rest tonight, you can see the more finished product, but you won't see a change until tommorow. Thanks for the input, hopefully i can still convince you to change:)

Yes, there are some major problem with your layout in Opera 6. The text items on the left side menu are extending far beyone their purple background and the orange hover colour on them is inpossible to read. The navbar you have under the logo is also overlapping its background.

What I would do with those two navigation bars is switch them around - I think people would excpect to see your site navigation on the left side there rather than links to other sites. It may confuse people.

I tend to like the first one better as well - all the characters there give the site some more ... character! The new one is kind of refreshing as far as game sites go - they always seem to be black.

Actually, i wanted to get out of black because i find most game sites not black. just my opinion though. I guess I am looking for a more refreshing look. Most people in my opinion though don't look at a page on the left at their first glance. they usually notice the logo and move down from there, so i would think they would see my menu. Maybe with the background color change i made it will get noticed more. i just wanted to not have the left side so clogged up and i don't want to make a separate page for my links, i want all my links to other sites to be just on the left.

Ok, i have made some nice changes. Tested it in opera, ie 5.5, and ns 6. Seems to look good in all of them, but i tested it without uploading it, just viewed the saved changes. Let me know if it looks better. made some white rollovers, change the background of my menu part, made the poll with smaller text.

gamecubecheats.net/newgamecube/newgamecubecheats.shtml

let me know
hopefully i can turn your heads about the two sites this time:)

bryan

That looks a lot better. I still think, though, that you should put your navbar on the left there because that's where people will expect to look for a navbar. Again, if you have a set of links in that location on the page people are going to expect it to be a navbar. The styling you have there now also makes that area much more noticable than your actual navbar. Another problem I see is that the navigation menu you have doesn't fit in well with the rest of the design - it seems so separate...

But I guess I'm not going to convince you on that one....

Ok. I have finished the layout, and only the links of HOME, CHEATS work. The colors match now. What you saw earlier wasn't what i was trying to show you, something messed up so you saw just the old stuff, but this is finally updated and to me looks good. Re-check it out and let me know how it shows up in Opera and Netscape. It looks good from my side with IE 5.5

http://www.gamecubecheats.net/newgamecube/newgamecubecheats.shtml

Thanks

bryan

Ok, i have tried it both on NS 6 and Opera, and it looks good.

One bad thing about opera is that it doesn't get the latest info. When i went to go to the website from the opera browser, it brought up my old info. So i had to go and clean out my cache and history and then reload it to get it to show the new stuff.

Lookin at ya in IE 6.0. Much better. But.....
The "Gamecheats Central" link is hanging off the blue bar. Could you just make it "Gamecheats" and get away with it?

Also noticed in your code, just above the second table that you have this extra:

menu

Change your font in the main content area to someting beside timess new.

I got ie working so can see it now - looks good

your pool font os to big, make it same size as content text or smaller

some browser issues thou

NS4.7 - has grey patchs all over your content area, looks like the grey left border is leaking through, looking at your code you have a lot of empty td cells, put a   between and if the gap is a small one add a style sheet class with font size of 8px at verdana font or similar, works in NS4 and up

Opera6 (as Opera6) has slight horz scroll bar

overall looks good, i dont like the grey left stripe thou, looks like itsa fault rather than part of the design, make it the same color as the left panel and it will take the links of the edge, either that or space your table cells a bit

just to be legite, maybe add a "mario character etc trademark to whomever" or something as you just have "all rights reserved" which is kinda saying you have rights to all characters, symbols and other trademarks

on the cheats page you need to loose the blue table, keep it the same layout as your index, but if your not going to use the area at the right, make your content expand over to it

I think it looks good but things are kinda hugging the rail in a lot of places so I'd try to pad things out a bit just to give them some room. Definitely change the font from TNR on the main section of text.

First, a few questions.

What is overall wrong with TNR. Just wondering, because of my inexperience in web design.

With the mario and luigi characters, i just did a search on google and found an image, and then i pretty much cut out the character itself and created the graphic. I put at the bottom All rights reserved, and then underneath it, Images property of nintendo Inc. Is that alright?

About the Extra section. That isn't in my code, i think it has something to do with when i upload it. It isn't there while i am editing my info.

Don't know why there is a horizontal scrollbar in Opera, my width is a max of 760.

With the blue background on the cheats page. I had to do that because i have css sheet enabled and teh rollover is white, so it would disappeer. In all honesty, i really don't think i would lose a single visitor because of that background. Again though, that is just my opinion.

BUSY - on your comment about the cheats page and the content. Do you mean, once you pick a particular game, and the info that then comes up, you say should be expanded? Just confused by the comment.

Here are the changes i have made. I have made the whole background the same as the left side, it looks a little odd to me, but maybe its more appealing to you all. The only way for me to make the text not hugg would be to put 1 space before each link. I didn't understand your point about padding things out. how would i do that with the links? I guess with using 800 x 600 (which i understand is the majority of web users) then it looks fine having the whole background the same color as the side, but for someone on a 1080x whatever, then it may look a little odd, but it does look better then grey, i have to agree on that. The Poll looks much better to.

About the Gamecheats central link hanging off. how much. Just the RAL or what. I am not going to worry to much about it. I think the site wants there whole name listed, not just part of it.

About the NS 4.7 thing, i will work on that. I have only made changes to the first page, so just to let you know.

About the extra white space on the right, i may be putting banners or something there, so that is one reason it is empty. I don't know what i am going to do with taht space yet

Thanks for the critique. Let me know of anything else you find. Just curious, are any of you feeling this layout yet?

Now that you have put the background the same colour as the side I think it looks a lot better and now it doesn't look like it's hugging the edge. By padding I meant addidng a cell padding to the table. TNR is harder to read on screen and looks less professional than Veranda or even ariel. I'm now getting extra bits on the screen in all browsers but haven't worked out why yet. I'll have another look at it after some coffee to wake me up a bit more!!

me again

just looked at your changes, man your fast
but in IE there is a blue dash coming over from above the links button and the main content font seems to have enlarged. overall looks 100% better at 800x600

now to answer some questions asked, yep the images by nintendo is good, probably not needed but just something to save your behind if anyone moaned about it. I get the extra head tag as well, here is the top section of your code, the bold bit should be removed.
...

menu

I think you guys were looking at it just as i was uploading or something. I have made the changes and previewed them for myself, that little piece of purple you see coming out is fixed. Its stupid, because those are background cell images, and its like if you don't have teh cell PERFECTLY set to a certain width or height (and i mean a few pixels) it goes nuts. I am getting ready to go ahead and fix that font thing. Its at a 3 i believe, i will change it to 2.

Webmistress

Those extra bits i think are what busy was seeing. Samething, but should be fixed now. please let me know if it isn't

YESS, you are changing, i am changing you to MY SIDE (MOOHAHAHA *evil laugh*) actually, i am glad you say it has a gamey look to it, because i kinda felt with the black one that it had the look of being slapped together, and i want the visitor to feel like they are at a nice site that has rich content and some professionalism to it. I think i am on my way. With the help of all of you of course.

ON that opera issue though, why is it that i have to clear the cache before rechecking my site, it just wants to load the old info, that is part of the reason i didn't have specific sections fixed earlier tonight because i was getting (false advertising:))

re-check it out if you get the chance
quick link
http://www.gamecubecheats.net/newgamecube/newgamecubecheats.shtml

Yeah that's better but the link 'Gamecheats Central' is still overlapping the edge on the right.

Thats really bothering you isn't it webmistress :)Well, to tell you the truth, i think i am going to leave it because nothing will ever be perfect. Some user will come to the site with some messed up resolution or some feature like having their fonts extra big and when they get to my site, it will look like crap to them, even though 99% of the people who look at it may think it looks good. When using Opera, i notice the L of central is on teh dark part of the shadow, and that is about what i see

Did you get my comment about the background color of teh cheats section, about the white rollovers. Does that kinda rationalize why I did it, to you?

the roll overs in the cheat section can be done with an extra style sheet, use a:link.cheats or something and use the rest of the code from normal but change the colors, then just add class="cheats" into the links in the cheats section.

I am still seeing that extra head and body tag in your source code, its affecting NS4.7 as its using the second body tag for the body tag instead of the top one wihich you want.

I see you also put the grey strip back, how bout keeping the left blue but use grey for the right section? idealy youd be better off making the table with 100% and using a section of the banner (between mario and the icon at right) as a background that tiles in that cell or you dont get stretch lines which would fit any sie browser.

that link over lapping bugs me , and the video game palace one as its right on the edge, and the gamework network, you've done well on the rest why not fix this small thing, could be the difference of having an ok or good layout

Ok. I think I may have things now. I finally figured something out. Since i use dreamweaver, i have always disregarded the blank spots that dreamweaver uses as the "grey spots" you see with netscape. I have redone my page, using only about 6-7 cells instead of the 25 i probably had earlier. The page is shorter, shorter in size, and there are only like 2-3 empty td tags. I have an updated version up and running. I think it looks good. I already had uploaded it before i got your message about changing the links so they don't GO OVER the line. K, now it looks great in IE 5.5 and Netscape 6, but in opera, my main menu section is off centered, more to the left. My code is better, i don't understand why

Could you be more descriptive about adding a new Css style sheet to a particular section of my page, while i already have another one running. Like, maybe print an example of how it would look html wise in here.

About the grey part, i don't know how to make the left side blueish purple and the right side grey. Keep in mind, everything you see is in a 760 x 800 (i think) table, that is centered. SO that color is just a bgcolor option added. The only way i think i could make the left side teh color of the menu and the right side grey is to create a 760 pixel wide image, half with blueish purple, and half with grey. Then add it.

If you know another way, i would appreciate it.

ALso, tell me if my code looks cleaner and less "crappy":)

Ok, I have edited this message right here. I am running into something really odd. I updated my site, went on my friends computer and updated the pictures, and the site. CHecked it on his site, looks great, used all the right files. Then i went to MY computer and check it on the internet there, and it shows all the old files. Does it sometimes depend on the network you are on to see if any changes are made in websites?

Let me know

bryan

Quote:
Ok, I have edited this message right here. I am running into something really odd. I updated my site, went on my friends computer and updated the pictures, and the site. CHecked it on his site, looks great, used all the right files. Then i went to MY computer and check it on the internet there, and it shows all the old files. Does it sometimes depend on the network you are on to see if any changes are made in websites?

Clear your browser's cache and see what happens.

the grey background in ns4.7 is from the second body tag

netscape and opera are bad for holding onto cache images and files, i have all my browsers set to empty temp internet folder on close but now and then still have to do it manualy, I find when working in NS or Opera, every now and then close them down and reopen them, this clears the cache and displays the new look, i remembering trying for hour hour once trying to figure out why my new images wouldnt show up - cache hogs

I have a real slow connection right now, and am heading to bed, but checked your layout, left section being wider looks great
still has the extra head and body tag in there thou, but you've fixed the ns4.7 problem, you may want to bring your top navigation table down a bit, its to far up causes it to cut of the line web thingy

the css thingy:

a:link {color: #003366; text-decoration: none}
a:active {color: #FFFFFF; text-decoration: none}
a:visited {color: #003366; text-decoration: none}
a:hover {color: #FFFFFF; text-decoration: none}

is what you already have, now you just add another set for your white background links, something like:

a:link.cheats {color: #303030; text-decoration: none}
a:active.cheats {color: #606060; text-decoration: none}
a:visited.cheats {color: #909090; text-decoration: none}
a:hover.cheats {color: #000000; text-decoration: underline}

then in your link tags add link and this link will be the added class/colors, not the main link class/color, of course change the link colors to suit, i just used those for samples (i think they are greys)

Ok, about that 2nd body tag. Guys and women, i have NO idea why its doing that. Its not in my original file I upload. Something is being added, and i found out it was the cheats file, because it was listing all the games for the gamecube. I deleted that file off the web, and tried re uploading but still no change.

With the css style sheets. SO i have to add this line

link (with whatever my file path is) to every single link? I can't just add it to a section and have it say, All these links are applied with this particular style?

Thanks for the reviews. I will look into changing it.

If anyone can help out why the code is doing whats its doing and why opera decides to show my menu left aligned instead of center, i would really appreciate it.

the best way is to add the class="..." to your tag, can be done other ways (like anything) but doesnt always work on all browsers, you only have to do it once, and if you ever want to change the color, you change 6 digits (the rgb code) in your style sheet

opera6 (as opera6) is the same as IE5, both aligned the same, i cant get the cheats page now thou, both 404

the extra head, body tags are there (and extra half way down) i think because you've made the page then copy and pasted something into it, missing the extras, open your html file in a text editor (dont use fp or dreamweaver or any other WYSIWYG editor), notepad is good, then manually remove these extra tags, save and upload, or reopen in your WYSIWYG to upload (ftp), I am guessing your editor is hiding your html tags as some do.
these extra tags will be your reason if anything isnt lining up or displaying properly

You need to put more of a border on the top navigation, it looks like it is falling out the sides.
Also i think you need to frame the whole page in a black line as you have on the left, this should help to 'hold it together'.

Lukster