Political Gateway.com
Hello,
This is my first post, but I do not know if it is the proper place.
I have been working on my site forever and am getting close. I need some critiques on looks....
I am looking for people to make one page templates for "mini sites" inside my site, but I am not much of a graphics guy
Is my site confusing? Easy to read?
What I offer to other webmasters, without ads or spam, is a lot of content stuff too.
Newest item... Iframe version of the election search engine
(should be kept at 800)
Also on my site is the news and polls for your site via javascript inserts..
http://www.politicalgateway.com/main/splashpages/pollsnews.html
Note: the news and polls will slowly be phased to the new version in my new members area. You will be able to make your own, use others, or grab xml feeds...
I plan on offering the Opinion editorial summaries and links as XML as soon as I can get that done....
The election "iframe" is brand new and I want to make it work inside other sites better.. I am contemplating 'branding' the information to reflect the site owner (such as 'elections on yourname.com')
The election section covers all of the USA and its territories by city. I am going to go with a press release at the end of the month to grab candidates.
To get a grasp of what you can have on your site, select 'west virginia' as your state, then select 'westover' as your city..... WHen the races come up, select 'house of delegates' and then the name "jeff riffle"....that is what a candidate will look like on your site..
Let me know i you like the idea and if any upgrades should be done..
Thanks for all....
Megan posted this at 13:44 — 18th May 2004.
She has: 11,421 posts
Joined: Jun 1999
Hello, Bob! Thanks for looking at some other sites first. I was just looking at your site from your post in the introductions area.
One big problem I have is the font size. Since you have so much text in here it's important to make things as readable as possible. I was going to reccomend that you use some CSS to improve this but I see that you do have a stylesheet, its just not working in my browser for some reason (Opera 7.5b). Do more with CSS. Work with your navbars so they look like navbars and not plain text links. Links should always be visually distinguished from other text.
I hate to say it, but I think your site could really benefit from a three columned layout (I usually hate those!). If you want to have so much on the front page it might be better to rearrange it somewhat. I happened to come across John Kerry's site when I was browsing through yours - http://www.johnkerry.com/ - that might be a suitable layout model for your front page. News headlines down the middle take up most of the space and therefore draw attention. Navigation and other information is available when needed but doesn't overpower the content. It is done in three columns, but doesn't look boxy or compartmentalized. The varying widths of the columns break from the usual monotonous three column look. George Bush's site is similar but not as good. It's got a fourth column and so much stuff crammed onto it that you can't figure out what to focus on. I even get a horizontal scrollbar.
It's obvious that you've put a lot of work into your site. That's an amazing amount of content and after all, Content is King!
Megan
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Politicalgatewa posted this at 14:47 — 18th May 2004.
He has: 24 posts
Joined: May 2004
Let me tell you, if there was a way to program for all browsers I would be the first..
Netscape and Opera 'work' on my site... and so few people use them it is a 'thank god'.
There does not really exist in Netscape or Opera an actual list of things that seem to not work correctly and a way to fix them..
For instance, a few fonts seem to not work and Netscape and Opera like to make my text, or at least some of it, times-roman...and that is not in my sheets (they just ignore them)
The line items in Opera just decide to add a few lines between them for no reason....
I really think anyone who uses netscape and opera are advanced to realize that most sites are going to look sloppy due to the bad programming of the developers of the browsers....
(an error in your style sheet...or even a 'difference' of opinion between netscape and established CSS syntax can result in a blank screen and no website..simply atrocious..!!)
Opera, after significant emails to their staff have never answered once any of my mails about the problems faced by webmasters, so to 'heck' with Opera I say.... I feel dumber just for having wasted all that time on them...lol
There, I am done venting (and this goes ditto for mozilla, safari, and a half dozen other poorly designed browsers...that people have to pay for for 'no ads'...)
As for what you say about the site, the front page is the one with the columns...believe you me, I have redone that page 400 times...There really is no good way to put that info in there without using multi columns... It is kinda like a drudge report...and it does look really really good in IE, you should take a look.
I always was more of a content guy then a look guy, but until there is some kind of actual word from netscape and Opera (not just someone's post on the internet somewhere) I find it impossible to program for the 12 different Opera and 34 different netscape versions.....Heck, they won't even give me a list so I can sort them out when they come to the page! Can you believe that?
This started out to be a thank you for looking at the site, but after going to Opera again today it all came back...grrrr.....LOL
The reason for the 5 columns is the news is set up per feed....and each feed is sorted by date...newest first... The photos are 140 or less...
If You split the page up from top to bottom instead of long columns, a lot, if not most of the new news will be below old news...and most will be way below the viewers line of site in most common display settings... I could get away with only throwing a few news items for each feed, but the search engine bonanza from the current events on that page are too much to ignore...
I figure everyone will get a shot at some top news and then go to the elections section. I really wish you could view it in MSIE as it looks sooo much better and much more readable...
Bob (this forum freaking rocks..) it will take me months to go through this...where were you when I started???
Megan posted this at 15:10 — 18th May 2004.
She has: 11,421 posts
Joined: Jun 1999
You have no idea how wrong you are about this! Mozilla, Opera, are Safari are the browsers that DO support standards properly. IE is the one that has problems with interpretation if the standards which requires countless work arounds. Read the work of the top CSS experts and you'll know what I'm talking about. IE is the lowest common denominator in terms of standards support these days. (and Netscape died last year sometime, so forget about it). And this is not to mention the coutnless browsing aids and efficiency improvements in the aforementioned modern browsers.
However, if you code to standard and validate your code, keeping in mind IE's support problems, it is quite possible to code a site that works properly and looks good in all browsers. As an Opera user, there are very few sites that I have problems using - and the ones that do are those that don't code to standard but use outdated ie-specific junk code.
And I did look at the site in IE. The font is arial but its still too small to read comforably. Otherwise it doesn't look much different.
Megan
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Suzanne posted this at 15:50 — 18th May 2004.
She has: 5,507 posts
Joined: Feb 2000
Standards would lower your page weight considerably, (font tags! say it ain't so!).
You need more white space around your page elements, and the font size is too small by just a tiny bit.
I like the multi-column layout, but I wonder why you have it so close to fitting 800 wide but not quite. Having the iframe set to 800 wide means you're forcing people who use it to have the same problem on their sites.
Black links look like text. I don't know they are links until I mouse over them accidentally on the way to the coloured text...
The header portion of the site needs better and stronger branding. The photo is too weak (looks like a bad realtor site photo) as is, and the title treatment is also weak. If you're going to brand it, you need something catchier and stronger as an "eyehold" on the site.
There is a lot of information there, for sure. However, there is likely TOO MUCH information. Having clear sections, one key story per section, and 5-10 headlines per section would allow greater understanding and quicker user penetration.
Politicalgatewa posted this at 16:24 — 18th May 2004.
He has: 24 posts
Joined: May 2004
The iframe has to be, to be seen properly, around 800 wide... This is not a force as it is a simple need from the amount of content in the site once you advance to a candidate... (try going to west virginia, city of westover, pick the 'house of delegates' and then pick jeff riffle...
The rest of my site is enclosed in an 800 wide, but i purposely make it smaller inside to keep the scroll bars from popping over the side...
The iframe content is smaller than 800, but the sroll bars that come with it demand the 800... If Someone just adds a header and footer it will work perfect. The thing had to be that big unfortunately as it covers so much (39,000 cities in US and territories) and needs to allow candidates to place lots and lots of information. I will be building an xml/rss version, but I thought some might want to play with it (especially those that seem determined to make 1024px wide sites....lol
The links..I know, they do not have the underline...but they were green yesterday, i just changed them... I think I wll lighten them a tad, but the idea is to make it look newspaery a bit.... The summaries in small print are for show and just recap the story line...if I use CSS on that text then the browser (for older viewers) will not be able to resize the fonts to read bigger...as in the case of my links...I dropped the underlines as it was too hard to read easily with those dang things....gotta come up with something someday...lol
The header will be upgraded as soon as my logo guy gets done (if ever)...but the information on that page brings so much to me from google.. and my readers do not want to surf, they just want to see all the headlines and pop to the one they want...
You guys are really good by the way, not many people seem to know that much about this stuff. I will endeavor to alter as best I can to fit your reccommendations...
The news on one page is also an example to site owners of my news feeds as they could appear using javascript.... Another reason I do that...
Politicalgatewa posted this at 16:27 — 18th May 2004.
He has: 24 posts
Joined: May 2004
megan, you still looking for contract work...I need political templates
Politicalgatewa posted this at 16:42 — 18th May 2004.
He has: 24 posts
Joined: May 2004
and dang, every step forward is five steps back in programming...between learning PHP MySQL, linux, apache and HTML....Now XMl....Now I need a super CSS course...then a WAP course...then PERL....don't even start with flash or javascript, just do not go there,......and on top of all that I still have to learn how to spell when typing....and grammar too
Suzanne posted this at 17:01 — 18th May 2004.
She has: 5,507 posts
Joined: Feb 2000
The good news, Bob, is that if you code to standards, and use CSS, you don't need WAP.
One less acronym on your plate. Unfortunately you left off graphic and information design on your list of things to learn...
Here's the thing -- your belief that it has to be 800 wide to fit everything in speaks more to a lack of underlying architecture than to a design choice. When you're designing a site (not just graphic design, but also the functions of the site and how the information is organized), if you find your end result doesn't work, you need to rethink how you're packing it, so to speak.
Take a look at a site like, say, YahooNews. Instead of going for multi-column, they have gone for one thin, one larger. Look at your newspaper (print) -- most often the style is the same. As you go DEEPER into the paper, you will find multi-column pieces, and when you get to the classifieds it's column heaven.
The same idea applies to a website. The main page should contain links deeper into the site, but the main page shouldn't look like the classifieds. You need to simplify the initial page, reduce the number of options I'm initially facing. And give me some room to read them (whitespace).
The main page should be the hook, then pull people deeper into the site with either more detail about one article (featured) or a list of similar articles (headlines). The list of similar articles, or a page of all categories and all headlines could be offered, yes. But not as the main page, and ideally only if the user requests such a thing (dynamic). Having the ability to select only the category they want to view (or a selection of categories) would be much better.
There is no problem showcasing your offerings (news frame), however you would do better to set that up for a smaller width, really. Even a browser set to 800 wide cannot handle more than about 760px of information before getting a scroll bar. I couldn't recommend your service based on your requirements. Would I be able to select only what I want from your newsfeeds? I assume so, so why can't I have that formatted as I please? The information is coming from a database, it doesn't have to be in columns, right?
Politicalgatewa posted this at 17:16 — 18th May 2004.
He has: 24 posts
Joined: May 2004
Suzanne,
I think you are mis interpreting the content of the website in some major ways....
The news feeds and the 'iframe' have nothing at all to do with each other..
The news feeds are plain to see if you look at my main page, 'top stories', 'political news', etc... and they go down the page.
My formatting is for me and my site. Users can pick whther they want phots or not, summaries or not, use their own css styles for text and links...and just pick one or pick many...
Here is the main page of the old site with that info, scroll down and you will see some of the 300 sites that are using them right now...
http://www.politicalgateway.com/main/splashpages/pollsnews.html
The latest addition to the users is blogbloke... http://www.advocare.blogspot.com
The Iframe is for the election database.... And if you have the type of site that needs great up to date info on elections, candidates, press and all that, there is absolutely nothing like it in our known universe (I spent the last two years figuring it out and trying to get it to work...and I go live for candidates on the 30th)
Here is the iframe page to start looking...go to west virginia, then to westover (city) then click on house of delegates, then Jeff Riffle... and then image a few hundred thousand candidates in the site...in your pages via iframe (or RSS soon)..
http://www.politicalgateway.com/elections/iframe/state.html
(the site is a little slow right now they are updating the backup drive)
The iframe would have to be 800 or so, it would be impossible to make it smaller.
The news feeds do not come in tables, they are just text and links waiting to be formatted and placed...
Politicalgatewa posted this at 17:26 — 18th May 2004.
He has: 24 posts
Joined: May 2004
That link is not yahoos main page...look at their main apge and tell me about single column.... apples and oranges..
I will take my clean low graphic index page over their horrendous 5,000 item page any day.... apples and oranges...
800 should be a standard...over 50% of my visitors still use displays of 800, and mine is 760 if you look at the information inside of content, not enclosed table size...lol
The idea is to get people who are used to such sites as the drudgereport.com and sayfiereview.com to pop up and use my site for news linkage too.... Since most of the feed links go outside my site as does theirs, I am trying to stay inside of the one page industry standard for such linking news sites....best I could do...
Suzanne posted this at 18:15 — 18th May 2004.
She has: 5,507 posts
Joined: Feb 2000
I purposefully used the main News page because it's an entry point. Yahoo has a much larger more diverse selection of offerings than you have. Even still, their main page is two columns. Then in the main large column, there are other columns.
http://www.zerocattle.com/examples/images/yahoo_2cols.jpg
You're right, it is apples and oranges to compare Yahoo's main page to your main page. Again, that's why I chose the News Page instead. If you don't like YahooNews, look at http://news.google.com/ instead. The point is that these large sites that people GO TO to read their news, they don't jam as much as possible into their sites. They leave some room.
Exactly! There shouldn't be scroll at browsers set to 800 pixels wide, but there is with your iframe because IT is set to 800 pixels wide which doesn't allow for the space of the scroll bar, the browser chrome, and any bars the user has set up for him/herself.
I don't know what to say to that. Other than you need to a) state the source of the news links and b) restructure your "one page" so it doesn't look like the classifieds.
Politicalgatewa posted this at 22:48 — 10th June 2004.
He has: 24 posts
Joined: May 2004
All good things come to those who wait....
whooo hoo
A new member is using my news feeds,
http://www.kcwy13.com
you can see the news under national news, on the right hand side..
whoo hooo!!!!!
Bob
Politicalgatewa posted this at 07:24 — 8th October 2004.
He has: 24 posts
Joined: May 2004
The feeds are always updated during the day and night...all hand picked news.
I just got picked up by a few syndicators like allheadlinenews, news4sites, worldnews.com, and a few smaller ones...
Let me tell you, when your news gets syndicated the hits come in waves and waves of people.
I write my own code to try to find unique visitors as best as possible without all the 'extra visits' most scripts show you...
Uniquely and without bots, as best as I could tell, I was approaching around 900 a day (24 hour period)...
This last tuesday (right after the google update unfortunately) is when I got picked up...
I went to 4500 unique visitors in the first 24 hours. A substantial amount of forum links (people using a news link to prove a point) popped up also...
It really is incredible....
When you first get some kind of tracking script you always check it and see cool things...like "a new site referral" and things like that.
I used to check every ten minutes just to see....
I stopped that and just check daily until this week....
I just sat there adn kept refreshing for hours as hundreds of site referrals came from all over...
Absolutely wild to watch it.....
Politicalgatewa posted this at 17:33 — 18th May 2004.
He has: 24 posts
Joined: May 2004
If you have the knowledge of the different wireless systems that can turn regular html pages into WAP pages specifically designed for small size and Kb browsers I would pay handsomely for the book...big time...
To use my database on a wireless phone without all the graphics and overhead with simple CSS standards would save me months of hard work with PHP/WAP languages...turn me on to that book!! I am all for it (I hate this wap integration with PHP, freaking nightmare,....and very non-"show me" in the instructions... (like reading the W3C docs lol)
Politicalgatewa posted this at 17:37 — 18th May 2004.
He has: 24 posts
Joined: May 2004
Tony Randall died today....
He was such a good actor, it was a pleasure watching him as I grew up..
:lovesick:
Suzanne posted this at 17:51 — 18th May 2004.
She has: 5,507 posts
Joined: Feb 2000
I know you have two services -- the iframe for the elections and the general political newfeeds, right? I combined my opinion about them in one paragraph, I can see how that was confusing.
iframe
http://www.politicalgateway.com/elections/iframe/cand.html?id=38&xid=38&xrid=34&xs=57&xc=34295&xy=2004
There is no reason why that has to be 800 wide. You could make it fit 750 wide easily. Where does that content come from? Is it a static page on your site for that candidate? Or does it come from a database? If it comes from a database it doesn't need to be set up in the same way, and you could allow different access that sets colours, only parts of the information, et cetera. Most definitely you could allow the user (candidate?) to style it as they please.
newsfeeds
The front page of your site is too crowded and too wide. Period. I looked at a number of the sites that use your feed and they are also too crowded. They have different options -- some have the image and the link, some have the link and the description, some have all three. None of the sites that I looked at (I looked at 13, a selection) were well designed or appeared to have any sort of traffic at all. It's good that you have options, but you are serving them bad code that they cannot control.
document.writeln('<div id="pgcom345" <<style="position:absolute; <<
width:46px; height:2px; z-index:1; visibility: hidden;"> <<
<a href="http://www.politicalgateway.com/index.html"> <<
<font size="-7">News From Political Gateway</font></a> <<
</div>');document.writeln("</p>
That's the first couple of lines. Non-standard, and will cause validation errors. Added line breaks marked with "<<".
Suzanne posted this at 18:06 — 18th May 2004.
She has: 5,507 posts
Joined: Feb 2000
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/wap/
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/csstalking/
And so:
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/designingforcontext/
http://www.webstandards.org/learn/resources/css/
Eric Meyer knows more about CSS than the original authors, I think. Any book by him will be an education. You can learn more -- http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/writing.html
Politicalgatewa posted this at 18:28 — 18th May 2004.
He has: 24 posts
Joined: May 2004
The news feed was written by a programmer (I am building new ones)... I forgot about that invisible layer...lol... I put that in last year thinking search engines would ifnd my site, only to realize that inserted javascript is read differently...and it was useless... Thanks for reminding me about that...hee hee
None of the sites have any problems with them. Only a few use the photos, most use them as just news items/links
The iframe cannot be 750.... and even if it was it would still mean taking the whole middle section of somoeones site up I think...
The reason for 760-800 (with scroll bars 800) is the content of the candidates. It is not static and due to photo galleries and massive content additions (more is on the way) a white space of 480-500 (when pushed) is mandatory.. Adding the two navs on the sides, as small as I could make them, still fills it out..
Plus the information in the search engine part must be allowed to grow a bit (the select boxes) as longer names and offices are added...
The problem here is the candidates add all this into a database and I dynamically throw it all up...so due to the nature of 'problem' candidates and the info they want to add I have to give them room to pop the stuff up.
The iframe I just put up this morning to see how it would work...(and that is the branding I meant, someone else posted something about graphics and branding....)...Branding meaning, by adding a query to the url of the iframe, inforamtion about the site that is calling the pages will show up in the iframe content itself..
such as "In conjunction with mysite.com"
Special preset news feeds or other info per the members control panel can be shown on some non-content search pages... and the like.
The branding that they spoke of is nice, but the idea and concept behind the site is a non-corporate one. A 'one person' operation so to speak not beholden to special interests. I am having a logo done, but no luck getting it finished yet. I really am striving to make it personal and non corporate.
Also, since the 70 million voters in the US that are online are dominated by a majority of older persons (the ones who actually go to political sites) I had to opt for a very linear and 3-4 color system allowing for text increases as much as I could...that is the nightmare...
I will check out the WAP... My biggest problem is finding out how to, without a doubt, get the correct user agent string and 'know' it is a WAP appliance so they can be diverted to the proper pages.... That info is spotty at best as they keep coming out with more browsers but no one identifying standard.. (most will say WAP or some other term, but not every one....)
Bob\
Sue- thanks for the conversation and the ideas and the constructful criticism.. It is so rare to find anyone that will say anything other thatn "looks great' or 'looks fine' or 'I didn't go'.... seems most people really don't care at all....lol
This forum rocks
modulargaming posted this at 15:09 — 16th June 2004.
He has: 152 posts
Joined: Jun 2004
I like the site and have registered for a news feed but is it updated
P.s I Like The Temlate / Design
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