You were seeing the green while I was uploading. Sorry about that!
The only popup windows are when you click to go to a search engine or click on the bottom information. We believe most people wouldn't be clicking that often and would be going directly to a city of choice.
But I understand and apprciate where you are coming from. However, we will still keep the popups the way they are... but thanks very much for the input.
By the way, we did put some blank pages up for those clicking thru the 'Free Web Templates'. They weren't designed to be clicked thru but to copy the source code. But we did change it so there wouldn't be any dead URLs as was a suggestion of Busy.
First though on opening the main site it that there should be something in the grey box at the top, this is where I would expect the logo. It's not a bad site but there is nothing to really get excited over either, everything is very pale and washed out and although you say 1 photo is all you want to keep the speed down, text is very boring to look at on it's own.
I have to agree that maybe until you do have some international sites listed, that you make it a lot clearer that it's US based. Also why are you putting so much importance on W3C? You may put off lots of webmasters, not because they wouldn't conform but you are making it all sound scary and too strict!
Everything popping up in new windows is also annoying after a few clicks.
On the pages New Hampshire onwards you have incouraged instead of encouraged. Any reason these pages are green???
Julia - if life was meant to be easy Michael Angelo would have painted the floor....
surfmeister posted this at 23:27 — 3rd December 2001.
You are absolutely correct when you say if I visit your country I would be international.
However, if you have a guide in your country it would be a 'National' guide.
I have copied the first paragraph of the front page:
Welcome to the National City Guide! This guide is for those seeking community and educational resources within the United States. We hope you find this directory useful for surfing local content. The National City Guide is being built with the help of a consortium of webmasters promoting the W3C standard.
...eductional resources within the United States.
Perhaps you missed it after I read the post from Megan, as she had a good point.
Quote: The reason we use the term 'National' is that when we go to other nations the term still holds true, .i.e., 'National'.
if you came to my nation, your nation would become international
I think America is an amazing place (yes I've been there) the people are amongst the friendliest in the world, landscapes are way up there but the locals are very stuburn in thinking their country is the only one and that the world revolves around them, it doesnt. I think the last few months (after sept 11th) has proven this.
anyway, back to the design, I think your trying to make it look to much like a microsoft site as well, and the w3c thing is to much, the w3c should be used as a guide, not gosbel, your site displays similar in netscape4.7 but the links at the left are very close to the text, we are talking 6mm in NN compared to 20mm in IE (at 800x600)
I couldnt find the word "USA", "America" etc either on your first page.
on your web template pages you should make your page links blank (use "#" or void) as its making your site bad, you have at least 108 bad links and having all the other links open in new windows is a real pain in the beep.
the green font on the green page is real hard to read. All the pages look the same, even when on the Olympia page I didnt know I was, maybe use the title above the image. the image is very blurry, like it was scanned from an old xmas card or something, try use crisp, clear images
sorry if this sounds like I'm attacking you, I'm not, Actually I have bookmarked your site as I hope to use it when I return to USA and no I'm not against w3c, in fact I have a html how to site which complies to xhtml and css standards
surfmeister posted this at 20:11 — 3rd December 2001.
Quote: How is Canada? It does say the United States. However, we will be including Canada sometime next summer.
The reason we use the term 'National' is that when we go to other nations the term still holds true, .i.e., 'National'.
I don't see the words "United States" or "US" anywhere on there actually... maybe I'm missing something. What I wanted to say was that in your site promotion I hope you'll let people know that for right now anyway "national" means "US". There's nothing more annoying than visiting a site only to find out that their product or service or information isn't available to you because of where you live.
When I see the word "national" on the web my usual response is confusion. Which country is this referring to? Now, if I was a less experienced internet user maybe I would assume that it means my country (Canada), but with experience I've come to realize that many people write on the web as if they're just talking to people within their own country. I've seen many examples of American sites using the word "nation" or its derivatives as if everyone knows it means the US. And I think that's very rude. Let me know what you mean by "nation" beforehand so I don't waste my time, that's my basic recommendation. You can still use the word "national" just make sure people know what you mean by that before they get into the site.
Quote: The reason we do not have businesses on this guide is that it is for community information - not commercial information. It is easier to maintain a community guide than continuosly monitor business sites. They are here today, and gone the next.
Well then make it clear that this is a non-commercial directory. I do think, however, that a site like this would be much more useful it if did offer commercial information. When I visit my local city site it is usually because I am looking for a certain type of business.
I'm still confused about why you're placing so much emphasis on the w3c thing. Sure, it will make sure everyone's writing proper code, but it's not going to prevent them from changing the look of things. You just seem to be placing a strangely high amount of importance on that... personally I would think that W3C compliance is nice but not of utmost importance.
Quote: By the way, I like your beautiful site. I know now that you are into flash and thats great, it just doesn't work for what we are doing.
I don't know what you mean by this at all.... My site is in flash, yes, but that doesn't mean that I prefer flash to HTML or think that all sites should be done in Flash. I'm glad you like the site though Maybe you misinterpreted my comments there... I didn't mean to say that I didn't like your site. Overall it looks very good. I just think that it could be more interesting to look at and you definitely need to make things clear up front regarding what the site does and does not offer.
We would just like to know what other Webmasters think of the idea of a National City Guide. If someone would like to become part of the project we are happy to include them, but that is not the purpose for the critique.
I forgot to respond to a few other questions and coments. I answered most of them, but I'll try to answer the others as well.
The reason the site looks the way it does it that it will be linked to other sites around the United States. As far as images go, we feel for a site to have speed, '1' photo is enough.
If we don't keep a standard then we would end up with alot of junk. however, webmasters can link to pages with as many photos as they seem fit ouside the guide from /city-guide.html/.
The reason we do not have businesses on this guide is that it is for community information - not commercial information. It is easier to maintain a community guide than continuosly monitor business sites. They are here today, and gone the next. However, I do know that a developer in Berkeley is creating a local business directory and linking it up from the Berkeley City Guide, which is not finished yet due to the @home fiasco.
You are right about the valign top - I will change that later today! I missed that one
The reason the search engines are at the bottom is for a number of reasons:
1. If someone comes to the site from a search engine and is looking for something else [ perhaps a hotel ] they just click on their favorite engine and go back to searching.
2. Newbie web surfers may not be familuar with all the search engines and this helps them find a new one.
3. By placing links on your pages to search engines it helps you keep your pages in their data base. I have placed over 2000 pages at the number 1 position in spider-driven search engines and linking them on your site is one of the keys to success in search engine optimization [ though I don't no to many 'experts' that ever mention it ], but certainly not the entire formula, but that is another subject. But what it will do when if someone clicks on a search engine from your site - your site gets another registry in the data base
I hope I answered your critique on why we do what we do, and once again THANKS FOR MENTIONING MY OVERSIGHT ON VALIGN TOP
Hans
By the way, I like your beautiful site. I know now that you are into flash and thats great, it just doesn't work for what we are doing.
How is Canada? It does say the United States. However, we will be including Canada sometime next summer.
The reason we use the term 'National' is that when we go to other nations the term still holds true, .i.e., 'National'.
As far as W3C goes we supply the templates that have already been W3C validated. Unless the webmaster changes the code they will have no problem validating. This is how we make sure the guide keeps a certain look and feel.
My first criticism is that you don't make it clear that this is a US city guide. "national" is one of those words that doesn't have a clear meaning online. Make sure that in your meta tags and search descriptions you make it clear to potential users that this is an American site. It is nice if we know this before we get to the site.
That butterfly looks very microsoft-ish. Basically the same thing only flipped around and in lighter colours. Don't copy.
Why are you being so strict about w3c validation? It seems odd to me to base your inclusions on whether or not they're adhering to standards. I would think that quality of content would be more important.
THat Olympia, Washington sample page is a little on the dull side. It looks good, but rather uninteresting. I would add more photos and make the title bigger and more prominent. You've got lots of information here about local services which is good. I would include more on local business and visitors information. I think that one of the big reasons why I would visit a city site directory like yours would be if I was interested in moving or visiting another city. I would want to know about entertainment, tourist sites, things like that.
What's with the search engines at the bottom? I'm sure most people have a set of favourite search engines, they don't really need you to link them up.
Make sure you valign=top that left table column, it's noticable on longer pages.
Firstly, we do ask that you review at least 3 other sites posted here before you post your own site, so if you could do that you are more likely to get a response to your posting.
I am a little confused as to what you want here? Do you want a critique of the site, whether we think this type of site is worth it or are you just trying to get people to work with you? Depending on your answer here this posting may be moved to a more appropriate forum section.
Julia - if life was meant to be easy Michael Angelo would have painted the floor....
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surfmeister posted this at 01:23 — 4th December 2001.
They have: 1 posts
Joined: Dec 2001
Hi Julia
You were seeing the green while I was uploading. Sorry about that!
The only popup windows are when you click to go to a search engine or click on the bottom information. We believe most people wouldn't be clicking that often and would be going directly to a city of choice.
But I understand and apprciate where you are coming from. However, we will still keep the popups the way they are... but thanks very much for the input.
By the way, we did put some blank pages up for those clicking thru the 'Free Web Templates'. They weren't designed to be clicked thru but to copy the source code. But we did change it so there wouldn't be any dead URLs as was a suggestion of Busy.
Hans
The Surfmeister
http://biogevity.biz
The Webmistress posted this at 23:44 — 3rd December 2001.
She has: 5,586 posts
Joined: Feb 2001
First though on opening the main site it that there should be something in the grey box at the top, this is where I would expect the logo. It's not a bad site but there is nothing to really get excited over either, everything is very pale and washed out and although you say 1 photo is all you want to keep the speed down, text is very boring to look at on it's own.
I have to agree that maybe until you do have some international sites listed, that you make it a lot clearer that it's US based. Also why are you putting so much importance on W3C? You may put off lots of webmasters, not because they wouldn't conform but you are making it all sound scary and too strict!
Everything popping up in new windows is also annoying after a few clicks.
On the pages New Hampshire onwards you have incouraged instead of encouraged. Any reason these pages are green???
Julia - if life was meant to be easy Michael Angelo would have painted the floor....
surfmeister posted this at 23:27 — 3rd December 2001.
They have: 1 posts
Joined: Dec 2001
Hi busy!
You are absolutely correct when you say if I visit your country I would be international.
However, if you have a guide in your country it would be a 'National' guide.
I have copied the first paragraph of the front page:
Welcome to the National City Guide! This guide is for those seeking community and educational resources within the United States. We hope you find this directory useful for surfing local content. The National City Guide is being built with the help of a consortium of webmasters promoting the W3C standard.
...eductional resources within the United States.
Perhaps you missed it after I read the post from Megan, as she had a good point.
Any way, I hope everyone is having a good day!
Hans
The Surfmeister
http://biogevity.biz
Busy posted this at 22:15 — 3rd December 2001.
He has: 6,151 posts
Joined: May 2001
I Totaly agree with Megan on the "national" thing
if you came to my nation, your nation would become international
I think America is an amazing place (yes I've been there) the people are amongst the friendliest in the world, landscapes are way up there but the locals are very stuburn in thinking their country is the only one and that the world revolves around them, it doesnt. I think the last few months (after sept 11th) has proven this.
anyway, back to the design, I think your trying to make it look to much like a microsoft site as well, and the w3c thing is to much, the w3c should be used as a guide, not gosbel, your site displays similar in netscape4.7 but the links at the left are very close to the text, we are talking 6mm in NN compared to 20mm in IE (at 800x600)
I couldnt find the word "USA", "America" etc either on your first page.
on your web template pages you should make your page links blank (use "#" or void) as its making your site bad, you have at least 108 bad links and having all the other links open in new windows is a real pain in the beep.
the green font on the green page is real hard to read. All the pages look the same, even when on the Olympia page I didnt know I was, maybe use the title above the image. the image is very blurry, like it was scanned from an old xmas card or something, try use crisp, clear images
sorry if this sounds like I'm attacking you, I'm not, Actually I have bookmarked your site as I hope to use it when I return to USA and no I'm not against w3c, in fact I have a html how to site which complies to xhtml and css standards
surfmeister posted this at 20:11 — 3rd December 2001.
They have: 1 posts
Joined: Dec 2001
Hi Megan
I understand from your point of view why I should modify the text to let people knoe that this is a community guide for the United States
I will also link 3 - 7 business guides from the main page for those seeking business related information.
Thanks for the input.
Hans
The Surfmeister
http://biogevity.biz
Megan posted this at 19:27 — 3rd December 2001.
She has: 11,421 posts
Joined: Jun 1999
A few responses...
I don't see the words "United States" or "US" anywhere on there actually... maybe I'm missing something. What I wanted to say was that in your site promotion I hope you'll let people know that for right now anyway "national" means "US". There's nothing more annoying than visiting a site only to find out that their product or service or information isn't available to you because of where you live.
When I see the word "national" on the web my usual response is confusion. Which country is this referring to? Now, if I was a less experienced internet user maybe I would assume that it means my country (Canada), but with experience I've come to realize that many people write on the web as if they're just talking to people within their own country. I've seen many examples of American sites using the word "nation" or its derivatives as if everyone knows it means the US. And I think that's very rude. Let me know what you mean by "nation" beforehand so I don't waste my time, that's my basic recommendation. You can still use the word "national" just make sure people know what you mean by that before they get into the site.
Well then make it clear that this is a non-commercial directory. I do think, however, that a site like this would be much more useful it if did offer commercial information. When I visit my local city site it is usually because I am looking for a certain type of business.
I'm still confused about why you're placing so much emphasis on the w3c thing. Sure, it will make sure everyone's writing proper code, but it's not going to prevent them from changing the look of things. You just seem to be placing a strangely high amount of importance on that... personally I would think that W3C compliance is nice but not of utmost importance.
I don't know what you mean by this at all.... My site is in flash, yes, but that doesn't mean that I prefer flash to HTML or think that all sites should be done in Flash. I'm glad you like the site though
Maybe you misinterpreted my comments there... I didn't mean to say that I didn't like your site. Overall it looks very good. I just think that it could be more interesting to look at and you definitely need to make things clear up front regarding what the site does and does not offer.
Megan
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surfmeister posted this at 18:46 — 3rd December 2001.
They have: 1 posts
Joined: Dec 2001
Yes Webmistress - Please critique.
We would just like to know what other Webmasters think of the idea of a National City Guide. If someone would like to become part of the project we are happy to include them, but that is not the purpose for the critique.
The Surfmeister
http://biogevity.biz
surfmeister posted this at 18:36 — 3rd December 2001.
They have: 1 posts
Joined: Dec 2001
Hi Megan
I forgot to respond to a few other questions and coments. I answered most of them, but I'll try to answer the others as well.
The reason the site looks the way it does it that it will be linked to other sites around the United States. As far as images go, we feel for a site to have speed, '1' photo is enough.
If we don't keep a standard then we would end up with alot of junk. however, webmasters can link to pages with as many photos as they seem fit ouside the guide from /city-guide.html/.
The reason we do not have businesses on this guide is that it is for community information - not commercial information. It is easier to maintain a community guide than continuosly monitor business sites. They are here today, and gone the next. However, I do know that a developer in Berkeley is creating a local business directory and linking it up from the Berkeley City Guide, which is not finished yet due to the @home fiasco.
You are right about the valign top - I will change that later today! I missed that one
The reason the search engines are at the bottom is for a number of reasons:
1. If someone comes to the site from a search engine and is looking for something else [ perhaps a hotel ] they just click on their favorite engine and go back to searching.
2. Newbie web surfers may not be familuar with all the search engines and this helps them find a new one.
3. By placing links on your pages to search engines it helps you keep your pages in their data base. I have placed over 2000 pages at the number 1 position in spider-driven search engines and linking them on your site is one of the keys to success in search engine optimization [ though I don't no to many 'experts' that ever mention it ], but certainly not the entire formula, but that is another subject. But what it will do when if someone clicks on a search engine from your site - your site gets another registry in the data base
I hope I answered your critique on why we do what we do, and once again THANKS FOR MENTIONING MY OVERSIGHT ON VALIGN TOP
Hans
By the way, I like your beautiful site. I know now that you are into flash and thats great, it just doesn't work for what we are doing.
The Surfmeister
http://biogevity.biz
surfmeister posted this at 18:05 — 3rd December 2001.
They have: 1 posts
Joined: Dec 2001
Hi Megan
How is Canada? It does say the United States. However, we will be including Canada sometime next summer.
The reason we use the term 'National' is that when we go to other nations the term still holds true, .i.e., 'National'.
As far as W3C goes we supply the templates that have already been W3C validated. Unless the webmaster changes the code they will have no problem validating. This is how we make sure the guide keeps a certain look and feel.
Cheers
Hans
The Surfmeister
http://biogevity.biz
Megan posted this at 14:23 — 3rd December 2001.
She has: 11,421 posts
Joined: Jun 1999
My first criticism is that you don't make it clear that this is a US city guide. "national" is one of those words that doesn't have a clear meaning online. Make sure that in your meta tags and search descriptions you make it clear to potential users that this is an American site. It is nice if we know this before we get to the site.
That butterfly looks very microsoft-ish. Basically the same thing only flipped around and in lighter colours. Don't copy.
Why are you being so strict about w3c validation? It seems odd to me to base your inclusions on whether or not they're adhering to standards. I would think that quality of content would be more important.
THat Olympia, Washington sample page is a little on the dull side. It looks good, but rather uninteresting. I would add more photos and make the title bigger and more prominent. You've got lots of information here about local services which is good. I would include more on local business and visitors information. I think that one of the big reasons why I would visit a city site directory like yours would be if I was interested in moving or visiting another city. I would want to know about entertainment, tourist sites, things like that.
What's with the search engines at the bottom? I'm sure most people have a set of favourite search engines, they don't really need you to link them up.
Make sure you valign=top that left table column, it's noticable on longer pages.
Megan
Connect with us on Facebook!
The Webmistress posted this at 09:10 — 3rd December 2001.
She has: 5,586 posts
Joined: Feb 2001
Welome to TWF surfmeister,
Firstly, we do ask that you review at least 3 other sites posted here before you post your own site, so if you could do that you are more likely to get a response to your posting.
I am a little confused as to what you want here? Do you want a critique of the site, whether we think this type of site is worth it or are you just trying to get people to work with you? Depending on your answer here this posting may be moved to a more appropriate forum section.
Julia - if life was meant to be easy Michael Angelo would have painted the floor....
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