Windows Live Shopping for IE/Win Only.

Here's a screenshot, in case they take it down right away now that the word is out:

http://admmail.uwaterloo.ca/~mjjack/MS_Live.gif

It should be noted that clicking Megan's link, even in IE, will display the FireFox message. Try this one, and you'll get redirected if you're not using IE:

http://shopping.live.com/

We're all still doomed. Yes, they can get away with designing a site for one browser only, plenty of people still do that and get away with it. Now though, sites are designed for two browsers: IE and FireFox (and maybe even Safari, if you're really lucky).

Remember that web based application all those Standards aficionados love called Basecamp? Do they support Opera? No. And everyone friggin loves Basecamp.

Roger - the dodger, pot calling the kettle black - Johansson for instance, I bet he loves Basecamp.

I take it back (we're not doomed), the stuffed Penguin sat atop my monitor in work could do a better job at designing a website than that.

They obviously took advantage of that special breakfast cereal offer: "Buy these fattening-frosted-flakes and get a free Web Designer in every pack!"

Ha! I just came back because I thought I might have put that link in wrong.

(I think it's pretty rude to accuse Roger of something like that for no good reason. And Basecamp had very little to do with this thread so why bring it up in the first place. But that's a sidenote, lets drop it )

megan wrote: I think it's pretty rude to accuse Roger

On first name terms with the geezer now, eh?
Anyway, I read his article, then popped down the pub with him for a swift half, he explained the article and I have to admit he's got a point.

Anyway, what do you expect? I personally think we should all be impressed Microsoft admitted anything other than IE/Win exists. Microsoft are a business, the only thing they care about is making profit. A good measure of how successful they are at this is market share, so this is something else they care about.

How does catering for any other browser increase their market share? How does conforming to Web Standards help their market share? The answer is: It doesn't, unless their market share is threatened by not doing so.

We shouldn't all be so shocked by this behaviour, the only people Microsoft are beholden to are their share holders. As they should be, they're a business.

Having said all that, I don't appreciate Microsofts methods so I don't use their software. If everyone cared so much they'd stop whining about how awful Microsoft is and just stop using their products.

Anyway, must be off. Rog' and I are going to the snooker hall, then meeting some of the lads for a curry.

Anything about Roger Johansson in this, and previous posts, is fabricated rubbish. I made it up, he does in fact have a fine blog and isn't a git at all.

Oh, and sorry to double post, but does anyone actually think that shopping site looks good?

They've just copied someone else, but done it really badly. I'm interested to hear what others think about it.

I think microsoft are scared, even in Opera it just says firefox support, so firefox must be a big threat to them - are them knees I hear rattlin

[Edit] Was curious so went had a look in IE6, the layout doesn't work to well, the search function is over the logo. looking at the source code doesn't speak to higher of IE7

The Beta is a given, not dial up friendly, but that has it's advantages, as it's so slow to load you can see whats loading ... all the images are being loaded from shopping.msn.com - the site they suggest you use if your using another browser

click on a product and instead of being able to buy it, it gives ebay or walmart lol so lame

plainly hate it... I use FF, although I test for IE to support it, why dont they support FF...
My site stats shows more visitors with FF now than from january, how bout all of you?

Hey look what happens when I try clicking back after rating a product:
http://intermedia-online.com/personal/2006-05-03shoppinglivedotco.png

I know it's the Beta, but come on, this site is awful!

And yes, looking at TWF's stats Firefox/Opera are closing the gap on IE. Although the issue is always clouded by different versions, IE7 is starting to appear in our stats a lot for instance. While we lose Opera numbers because I'm using a different version to most people (not as many people are hungry for a new version of Opera as they are IE).

I for one am hoping the anti-IE trend continues, at the very least it's forced them to update their browser.

*** EDIT ***
Oh and the Opera window behind saying: "59 validation errors" is indeed how badly their code validates. This is meant to be MS embracing standards!

I took a look around that site for a bit too. God, it's annoying! Ajax is meant to make things faster and easier, but that site is just slow and annoying. And "cool" stuff like drag & drop is no good if they have to tell you how to use it.

A friend(bryan) told me to reply on this thread as he said...

"Microsoft is only doing that because they are scared of flex."

Now this is scary. Free hosting, free domain, free "professional" (ha ha) website. "Let Microsoft keep your Web site up and running" (no, run away screaming!)

Ok, so am running Linux here, anyone with IE signed up for the trial? Anyone fancy doing it to see what they're up to?

Or shall I have a look when am at work, to be honest am unsure whether I'll be able to bear to use IE for long enough to sign up.

Seems kind of desperate, don't you think?

For the next glitch (and Microsoft still obsessing about Firefox):

Windows Live Mail wrote:
Whoops!

You may have noticed that some of the new features in Windows Live Mail Beta have gone missing!

Well, you’re right. We hit a couple of bumps with our most recent release, but we’re working hard to bring back the great new features.

In the meantime, we’ve restored the service to the prior release so that you can keep using Windows Live Mail Beta.

For all you Firefox users out there, this means that you’re getting our Classic Hotmail experience again. Don’t worry – we’ll get your new Windows Live experience working as soon as we can!

This is all new stuff we’re doing so we appreciate your patience while we work the kinks out.

Ummm, yet again... I use Opera?! I get the feeling Microsoft just don't *get* what the Internet is all about. It's not about market share or ownership, it's about freedom and choice. My choice as a user to have whatever browser I want. They still, like so many so-called Web Designers , just don't understand the point of the Internet. Anyone who disagrees, ask yourself why the Internet became popular if it wasn't as a method for people to explore a new freedom of expression?

Support standards, not browsers. Follow that mantra and annoying mistakes like this wouldn't happen. They've put a nice spin on it, but the signs Microsoft have not changed at all are showing through the cracks.

The only reason I have a Hotmail account is for spammy stuff, you know sites that make you sign-up to access content etc.

I get what you mean jeeves, i only have a hotmail account for the messenger... and more business people in my experience seem to have hotmail accounts, why is that?

Quote: ...and more business people in my experience seem to have hotmail accounts, why is that?

I guess they just haven't heard that gmail is way better. I use a pop account for the spammy stuff, web-based email has matured into a better product. At least the Google version has. It's looking like Google may plan to use Gmail as a back door into enterprise networks, though "Gmail on your domain" didn't appeal to me.

Quote: I get the feeling Microsoft just don't *get* what the Internet is all about.

Huge corporations are assualting the nature of the internet from all sides now that it is apparent to them what a real threat it poses. This will be an interesting century.

andilinks wrote: Huge corporations are assualting the nature of the internet from all sides now that it is apparent to them what a real threat it poses. This will be an interesting century.

I agree with you on the second point, but am certain those corporations would see it as turning a threat into an opportunity. Depends upon your viewpoint! The fate of the Internet is really in the hands of those who use it, it's all very well to complain about large corporations like Microsoft - with their inflexible view of the net as something to be conquered and owned - but what are we actually doing about it? How are we educating the average user to steer away from Windows and Internet Explorer? Or fighting software patents?

Quote: ...but what are we actually doing about it?

I have chosen sides but I don't actually do much beyond following the issues on digg, techdirt, etc. and expressing my opinion from time to time.

I don't have a real foothold in this battle of the titans, I'm just an observer with a database to tend.