Poor Man's Self-Destruct Button
A couple of times I've had clients not pay me for my work. Usually I provide the hosting for my clients and I can just turn them off if needed, but these few times I'm talking about were hosted elsewhere. I'm looking for a similar way to turn off a client's site on a different server if they don't pay me.
In the past I've had access to the servers they wanted me to upload their pages too, but I feel like going back in and deleting stuff on their severs is closer to trespassing and vandalism than to protecting my own work.
I already know the top two responses I'll get, 1) Don't deliver the finished product until they pay, and 2) Sue them if they don't pay. But aside from these obvious measures, what else can I do as a cheap and easy backup?
Can I do something as simple as hosting the CSS style file on my own servers? Then if I have a problem I can just delete the file on my server and their site will look like crap. Of course that's way to simple for anybody who knows anything about HTML but my mom and pop clients wouldn't have a clue how it all works.
Are there any other simple tricks or ideas to "take back my work" if needed?... or are you all thinking I'm nuts to even be thinking of something like this?
greg posted this at 08:11 — 20th January 2009.
He has: 1,581 posts
Joined: Nov 2005
Well, adding to your "obvious ideas", getting 50% of the total quote before you start is a good idea, and is generally an acceptable requirement, many businesses do this within various industries.
I know half probably doesn't cover the work you put it, but it's better than nothing.
Another option is specifying and agreeing to stages of the job and getting payment for each stage as it's completed.
So split the work up into 4 or 6 stages (more or less depending on the volume of work) and each time a stage is complete don't do anything else until they pay. If they are not going to pay anything, at least you have only done a few days work, and even if at any point they run, you should have been paid for at least 70-80% of the work you have done.
It does happen and it happened to me once, I was fortunate that it was an unusual site, so I can use the code I made for myself and release the same site my client was going to do.
Not really ideal, but at least I might get something back.
Also, you make it sound like it happens to you quite often! If that is the case, and not just it annoys you enough for you to make it sound that way (which is understandable), then you might be getting work from some bad places.
Gog posted this at 11:32 — 20th January 2009.
They have: 41 posts
Joined: Dec 2008
I think the issue is you need a contract that gets signed by them itemising every little part of the site that gets signed before you commit to starting the site, including a deposit. Once the site goes live then if they don't pay you just threaten to take them to court. If you have a contract with them then most people don't want to go to court so will pay up. Those that don't, you just take to court and because you have that legal paper then they have to pay.
The other alternative is again to have a contract but put into it a deposit and payment stages along the way of development that way there is only a small amount outstanding once the project is complete and the client signs off the stages as you go along.
greg posted this at 12:01 — 20th January 2009.
He has: 1,581 posts
Joined: Nov 2005
It's often that they live hundreds of miles away, more often thousands of miles and in another country with different laws.
If you want to take someone to court, most countries demand you go to the persons country you are taking legal action against, which can be costly, time consuming and not worth all the effort for a few hundred $$.
Flights there and back, sometimes more than once, hotel bills to stay there, solicitors bills, court fees, loss of earnings due to time taken doing all this.
For what? Even if you are owed $2,000. It will be MORE than that for the above costs.
And that's if you actually win. It's difficult to actually PROVE the work/code is yours. So you not only spend thousands fighting the case, you probably wont even get the money you're owed.
When it happened to me I did investigate the options of doing just this. I knew fine well it would actually cost me hundreds more than the payments I would receive from my work that I was owed, but was contemplating it out of principle to not let them get away with it.
I spoke to loads of solicitors (lawyer) and not one of them was even willing to look at my case due to international laws.
Also, how legal are the agreements between you and your client? Again, different countries have different laws.
It really isn't just as simple as taking someone to court and getting your money.
Besides, people who don't pay usually don't care about going to court, or know that it's never going to happen, so threatening them is as pointless as actually taking them to court,
decibel.places posted this at 14:27 — 20th January 2009.
He has: 1,494 posts
Joined: Jun 2008
Yeah, I've been burned a couple of times too - usually the money is the least problem, the client is crazy and gets me wrapped up in his/her borderline personality disorder issues.
So do we need a self destruct button? How would we construct it?
How about placing a password-protected php file that deletes the project directories and files? That would work but..
What if...
1. Somebody else accidentally triggers it? You will certainly be responsible for restoring the files, and you may be liable for a lawsuit yourself.
2. Client discovers it and asks questions? (your answer: "It's not that I think you might be an unethical sleazebag, I'm just paranoid, now let go of my foil cap, you're blocking the transmissions...")
I think it's best to choose your clients carefully, get an agreement in writing, get a deposit, and if possible host the dev yourself.
greg posted this at 14:52 — 20th January 2009.
He has: 1,581 posts
Joined: Nov 2005
Rather than self destruct, just construct a "backdoor".
Common with a lot of coders, and without the clients knowledge as it can be activated in a usual page like "homepage.php" where adding specific GET info would initiate it.
<?phpif ($_GET['accessonlytome'] == "somesecretwords"){
do login code for whatever
}
?>
Then unless they look at the code, I never found a client that does, or somehow types in the above (as likely as Elvis playing Glastonbury) then it's not seen by the client.
It can give you access to DB/server files or whatever you wish, to del it all or whatever.
Having access like that would mean you could remove the entire site barring one page, that reads "Pay me and your site will magically appear again"
And with more access then simple del all, you can also remove the backdoor once payment is done, as it could be a security risk, although if they are paying you they likely haven't rushed to take your logins away either, like runners do.
IMPORTANT NOTE: For a backdoor, I wouldn't advise using a simple login like "joshua"
pr0gr4mm3r posted this at 15:06 — 20th January 2009.
He has: 1,502 posts
Joined: Sep 2006
My company policy is that all web development projects are hosted by me until paid in full, and I also sometimes require 50% down so I know they are committed.
And yes, I have thought of putting a time bomb in my code before. Never have though.
Shaggy posted this at 17:22 — 20th January 2009.
They have: 121 posts
Joined: Dec 2008
Set up contractual milestones. When a milestone is hit, agreed payment is made for that milestone before progress continues. No delivery or 'go-live' until payment in full. If it's a large project with flighty clients and/or lack of trust, consider escrow.
Backdoors and 'self destruct' procedures are accidents waiting to happen, and unprofessional. (as is non-payment, but hey, you're the good guy, right?!)
Cheers,
Shaggy.
fifeclub posted this at 00:22 — 21st January 2009.
He has: 688 posts
Joined: Feb 2001
I don't charge anywhere near enough to be worth a lawsuit, and usually not even enough to warrant a partial payment. This has only happened to me 3 times but the last two were co-workers, and there in lies the problem. It would be rude and make for an uncomfortable work environment for me to not trust their word that they'll pay me. And I charge friends so little that I'm doing them a huge favor. Yet the last two co-workers screwed me over.
I swore off doing business with friends and co-workers but so many keep asking me that I'm doing it again, again at prices to cheap that it's more of a favor to them, and too little a price to break it up into payments.
But despite it not being about the money, I'm irks me to no end to have a "friend" f*** me like that. So I'm not in a situation where asking for stepped payments makes sense, but just in case it happens again I'd like that hidden ability to take back my favor.
greg posted this at 00:58 — 21st January 2009.
He has: 1,581 posts
Joined: Nov 2005
The usual problem with disputes like this is distance, if I worked with them, I would most certainly be getting my money from them.
As for "rude and make for an uncomfortable work environment", stuff that! I know what you mean, exactly, but they conned you, and are likely **speculation** laughing about it at the pub.
It probably doesn't need an angry or forceful approach, just stern in as much as don't be a push over.
Is it likely other co-workers have "spoken" to the ones who didn't pay you and said get him to do it and don't pay as he does nothing about it?
Again, speculation, and not wanting to seem like the world is a bad place or your co-workers are all bad people, but even good people can take advantage of others if it's made easy for them.
This isn't always intentional. Often it can be as simple as they are always short of money and their intentions are to pay asap, but never have any real spare cash. As time passes by it just becomes forgotten.
I still maintain payment in stages is the best way to go.
What you want and when depends on time required to do the job, but of course get a good lump early on and at least you get something.
Although, in your position for other co-workers, considering the previous co-workers taking advantage, I would sincerely suggest getting 75% before even starting work.
You're doing it for peanuts even if you do get paid, so if they don't like that, you have not lost anything.
And if you don't get the final 25% remove the site until they do.
A backdoor, or if you backup the site on your local HD, then wipe it.
BTW, I tend to do stuff for close friends and family for free. Friends of friends, work colleagues etc a little cheaper than usual
pr0gr4mm3r posted this at 02:10 — 21st January 2009.
He has: 1,502 posts
Joined: Sep 2006
Sounds like you have reason to not trust them.
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