opera 6.0 is out and ready to download.
i'm right now playing around with it and it's making a good impression on me.
i'd really like to stop using ie and having a good alternative.
Yes, I just installed it myself. The lack of personal toolbar folder problem I talked about in general chat is now rectified, so I'm happy.
The biggest change is getting used to seeing the status bar up at the top rather than at the bottom.
Cool! You can search Amazon.com, or for a domain, or an image or video, and a bunch of other stuff right from the browser! You can't seem to move your toolbars around though, that's a little bit annoying.
The more I use this browser the more I love it! I think I'm going to write them some fan mail It seems to be designed more for the serious internet user - lots of options, lots of custmoization available. Unlike IE which seems to be catering more to the newbie types.
There are so many cool features in this thing! I keep discovering more. Like you can turn of pop-up windows. Yay! Good-bye. Turn off animated gif's, and embeded sound, video, etc. etc.. How nice of them.
They also have this thing called hot click, which is sort of like smart tags but not nearly as annoying or offensive. You double click on a word and you can search for it (using the engine of your choice), look it up in a dictionary or encyclopedia or translate into about 5 languages. No direct links to sites supposedly about that word (although the dictionary, encyclopedia and translation tool does use Lycos but that's minor IMO)
Right clicking on a photo gives you 6 options - save it, copy it, reload it, copy the image address (handy if you want to post an image on the forums here), view it's properties, or use it as a skin or desktop background. Handy.
This browser officially kicks butt. I can't stop marveling about how wonderful it is. Thank you Parker!
Well after all the rave reviews I decided to bite the bullet and thry this for myself, (this is the first site I am viewing using opera) and I gotta say its quite impressive.
the staus bar will be the hardest to adapt to but I'm sure it will grow on me, (edit) just found you can have it at the bottom lol
one thing i did notice in quick prefences is how the browser is identified by, you can set it as mozilla, MSIE or Opera, this will really screw up stats lol
ok I just found out holding down the right mouse button and moving the mouse is a no no, lol it closes the window, haha
its true, you can teach old dogs new tricks
my only quams would be its problem displaying tables and the alt tags in graphics dont seem to be adjustable, or i havnet found that bit yet
Having several windows open in one browser can get confusing, you forget you have them open lol
Quote: Originally posted by Busy one thing i did notice in quick prefences is how the browser is identified by, you can set it as mozilla, MSIE or Opera, this will really screw up stats lol
This could come in handy when those jerks who can't bother to do cross browser testing won't let you into your site if you're not using IE. Has happened on occasion
Quote:
ok I just found out holding down the right mouse button and moving the mouse is a no no, lol it closes the window, haha
You probably inadvertantly did a mouse gesture. If you hold your right mouse button down and move to the left, you'll go back, right and you'll go forward. Here's a list of all the mouse gestures:
i visited a site and got a message from opera saying:
Quote:
The server tried to set an illegal cookie. The combination of the server's hostname and the domain attribute is not acceptable, and the cookie therefore has been rejected.
You might want to ask the webmaster to set legal cookies.
I noticed it said something about ads on their web site... Are there a bunch of ads in the browser if you do not register? Can someone post a screenshot?
Its only been slow animated banners so far for me, doesnt seem to be to annoying yet, but the good thing about it is you can actually choose what sort of banners it display, (sports, shops, entertainment ...) and this is on the free version
bertiek posted this at 16:24 — 20th December 2001.
Since reading all the comments I decided to have a look at Opera.
There's no doubt it's a decent browser but unfortunately you have the same problem you get with NS i.e it follows the standards too rigidly. In an ideal world this would be great but as IE forgives sloppy coding you will continue to have pages that look great in IE but not in NS or Opera. At the moment a large proportion of web designers only design for IE due to the majority of surfers using that browser.
I ended up changing over to IE from NS for exactly this reason, although I didn't want to (security etc..)
IE adds lots of fancy tags with each version it releases and rightly or wrongly web designers like to use them. Unfortunately due to it's considerable lead in the market IE can do whatever it wants and will continue to do so until designers start designing using only the standards which I can't see happening.
Honestly, I haven't had that many problems with pages not displaying right in Opera - actually, most of the ones I have had problems with are those that have been posted for critique and haven't been fully tested yet.
I can see the point of what you're saying, but I also think that Opera 6 and Mozilla have made some real advances in technology that haven't been mirrored by IE. IE 6 made very few improvements over v. 5.5. Oooohhhh, little print/save/e-mail buttons on photos. Whoop-de-do. But then, I really don't care if other people choose to use a browser with a simplistic user interface (and hey, for some simpler is better)
What I do care about, as a web developer, is progress in support for new technologies. IE still isnt't supporting the standards entirely and is really starting to lag behind the others. So, if IE continues to dominate, then we can't use new standards and the web continues to stagnate. Back when there was real competition between NS and IE support for new technologies really increased rapidly, but ever since IE took over the market there haven't been many changes. IE doesn't have full support for CSS-2 AFAIK (Opera and Mozilla do, with a few minor exceptions). It still doesn't support PNG with transparency (Opera and Mozilla do) as another example.
The great thing about standards is that, if you code correctly and if the browsers implement them correctly and consistently, there shouldn't be a problem with cross-browser display. However, the problem, as you said, is that many "designers" can't be bothered with them, or don't know about them, or for whatever reason don't even bother to do cross-browser testing!
So, I think it's our job as developers to promote the use of standards and progress in support for new standards. The only way this is going to happen is if there is competition in the browser market, with different browsers continually pushing each other to be better and better. Therefore, those interested in encouraging support for new technologies should also use alternative browsers and encourage others to do so as well.
My motto is "do it once, do it right", or a second cup of coffee never hurt anyone .
Opera is a strict browser in some ways but not 100% to the letter, a few things I have found playing around with it is this like, javascript (mostly mouseovers) are affected, the font tag around a non breaking space doesnt work and some other CSS issues (layers etc, nested div's).
You claim IE is the leader, I tended to believe that too up until a few days ago, my version of opera had the default set to be identified as IE5 and not as opera, how many people have downloaded Opera and not changed/seen that, looking at download.com there were something like about 6 million downloads of Opera, so i'd guess opera.com would have more, then all the other download sites, tucows etc.
Most local schools, librarys, cyber cafes etc use netscape as default, this i was even suprisd at, but its true (thats why Microsoft wants to give them all new PCs). Web designers who design for IE with only IE's toy tags arent in my mind real web designers, a web designer make a site that is universal, the really good ones make it not only universal but wap friendly, disabled friendly and multi language/cuture friendly.
zULuGriD posted this at 23:02 — 20th December 2001.
Quote: Web designers who design for IE with only IE's toy tags arent in my mind real web designers, a web designer make a site that is universal, the really good ones make it not only universal but wap friendly, disabled friendly and multi language/cuture friendly.
personally, i consider a web designer anyone who likes to make webpages. it doesn't matter if they make them compatable for all web browsers, or if they are disabled friendly, or any of that other stuff. they design webpages. its not their problem if it doesn't work on all browsers.
on the other hand, a web developer is a little different from a web designer. a web developer is supposed to develop webpages that are compatable for most people. they encompass everything a web designer is, but then they add in a bit more technicality to make sure everything works properly for everyone that will be viewing the page, because they are developing the page, not just designing it.
well thats my take on it. personally i'd say i'm more of a web designer then a developer; i don't really care (most of the time) if everyone can easily view my pages. most of my pages are made for very targeted groups of people, and so i rarely have a need to spend a bunch of time making sure it looks good in the 5 billion different browsers that people use and the zillion languages that people might be speaking.
in addition, many of the "new technologys", in my opinion, are a complete waste. example: i've never used PNG in my life, while should i care if opera supports PNG with transparency? another example: IE doesn't fully support CSS-2. So? Most older browsers don't support normal CSS, so if you truly wanted a cross-browser compatable website, then you would use as little CSS as possible anyway. so basically what i'm trying to say is, cross-compatable websites aren't realistic. the best you can do is pick the browsers that visitors to your site will MOST LIKELY use, and cater to those.
But I think you're coming from the perspective of web designers rather than Joe Public.
I think all Joe Public is interested in is seeing well displayed web pages, at the moment IE is best at that due to the reasons I mentioned above. Unless there is a tangible reason for changing to Opera or Netscape I don't think people will.
You make the point that Opera and Netscape have made some real advances that haven't been mirrored by IE.
That's the point I'm trying to make. Who cares if Opera and Netscape have advanced. Which web designer in their right mind is going to implement these advances in their website if it affects the display in IE. I know I certainly wouldn't.
Megan, you were so right about the advances made in standards when there was real competition. This is what we need again.
How do you think we, as web designers, can promote the use of other browsers, bearing in mind Microsoft are bundling IE with every PC sold. (Lets not get into the intricacies of the Microsoft lawsuit)
I don't think you can persuade people to change browser if the average webpage is displayed better by IE than NS or Opera which it is at the moment.
The only way I see other browsers catching up is if they emulate IE but give additional features.
Quote: Originally posted by zULuGriD personally, i consider a web designer anyone who likes to make webpages. it doesn't matter if they make them compatable for all web browsers, or if they are disabled friendly, or any of that other stuff. they design webpages. its not their problem if it doesn't work on all browsers.
I completely disagree. It totally is their problem. I think that anyone who is trying to put a website up for the public to see should be concerned with whether or not people can see their sites given the users own browser/screen res/platform preferences. It doesn't take much to make a site that works in anything commonly used now.
Quote: in addition, many of the "new technologys", in my opinion, are a complete waste. example: i've never used PNG in my life, while should i care if opera supports PNG with transparency? another example: IE doesn't fully support CSS-2. So? Most older browsers don't support normal CSS, so if you truly wanted a cross-browser compatable website, then you would use as little CSS as possible anyway. so basically what i'm trying to say is, cross-compatable websites aren't realistic. the best you can do is pick the browsers that visitors to your site will MOST LIKELY use, and cater to those.
Quote: Originally posted by bertiek That's the point I'm trying to make. Who cares if Opera and Netscape have advanced. Which web designer in their right mind is going to implement these advances in their website if it affects the display in IE. I know I certainly wouldn't.
I think you're misunderstanding me here. My point here is that if IE supported these standards then we would finally be able to use them! So, if people who CARE about progress in client-side technology started to use and promote the use of new browsers, we could push a little more competition into the market, which would push IE into supporting mooe standards, which would allow us to use them, which would allow us much more flexibility and control in terms of visual design! The sky's the limit after that! Now there's the glass celing that won't be broken until things change!
We are still looking into the future here. v. 5.x and lower browsers will certainly need to be elinated before these things can actually be used in practice. HOWEVER, Opera 6 and Mozilla (NS6) are taking steps in the right direction. They're there already. IE is the only v. 6 browser not to do this. So, now we have to wait for IE 7 and hope that makes some improvments. When will that happen? Years? We've already been waiting that long for PNG support and CSS-2 support etc. etc. PNG was first recommended by the w3c in 1996!
Quote: How do you think we, as web designers, can promote the use of other browsers, bearing in mind Microsoft are bundling IE with every PC sold. (Lets not get into the intricacies of the Microsoft lawsuit)
We can put buttons on our site linking to opera or mozilla, we can tell people about it, we can talk about how great it is (and from a user's perspective Opera is a WONDERFUL browser IMO). We can use them ourselves. We can develop pages that use more advanced CSS features and put a note saying "Best viewed in Opera 6" ha ha. No, I usually don't encourage that sort of thing, but I do feel strongly about this issue so I may actually consider doing that on a personal site or something. I don't have all the answers here, but we don't have to let them win.
As I alluded to above, I think the first thing that needs to happen is getting NS 4.x users to upgrade to a v. 5 or 6 browser - any of them. That's one step in the right direction. And it seems to me that, as Busy (ahem...) said, the main culprits here are schools, governments, libraries and other public institutions. I really wonder why they're not upgrading...
Quote: I don't think you can persuade people to change browser if the average webpage is displayed better by IE than NS or Opera which it is at the moment.
I'm not finding that to be true most of the time (two misconceptsions about Opera: 1. It doesn't display pages properly and 2. If it has ads it must not be any good) One real tangible reason for using Opera that has kept me using it is the amount of control and cusomization options you have. It's a browser for serious internet users, not for newbies. For me that's a "tangible" reason.
But, you know, maybe people won't upgrade at all. Maybe they'll just stick with IE 5 or whatever and stay there. maybe we'll be stuck with sketchy support for CSS-2, no transparent PNG, no SMIL, no SVG etc. forever!
Quote: I think the first thing that needs to happen is getting NS 4.x users to upgrade to a v. 5 or 6 browser - any of them
:cry:don't take my 4.7 away from me :whine:
but cereal, I will stop using 4.7 when there is some sort of universal agreement in standards. Microsoft has a bad history of not playing fair and with the others, they always want to be the leader in whatever and do whatever to do it, even if it screws up the web standards, but they will learn the hardway, NS and Opera are rapidly increasing in new users everyday, so unless IE7 bucks up its ideas they will be forgotten. NS and Opera arent pairing up, they arent even the same company but they are going at this standards level with the same outlook, to help us (people who work/play with web sites) to advance, my hat comes off to them and raspberries to mircosoft.
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Megan posted this at 14:20 — 30th November 2001.
She has: 11,421 posts
Joined: Jun 1999
Yes, I just installed it myself. The lack of personal toolbar folder problem I talked about in general chat is now rectified, so I'm happy.
The biggest change is getting used to seeing the status bar up at the top rather than at the bottom.
Cool! You can search Amazon.com, or for a domain, or an image or video, and a bunch of other stuff right from the browser! You can't seem to move your toolbars around though, that's a little bit annoying.
Megan
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merlin posted this at 14:24 — 30th November 2001.
They have: 410 posts
Joined: Oct 1999
yes, that's quite confusing.
a really good point is, that changing the preferences is very easy and that you can change just everything...
Megan posted this at 19:48 — 13th December 2001.
She has: 11,421 posts
Joined: Jun 1999
The more I use this browser the more I love it! I think I'm going to write them some fan mail
It seems to be designed more for the serious internet user - lots of options, lots of custmoization available. Unlike IE which seems to be catering more to the newbie types.
I encourage everyone to at least give it a try.
http://www.opera.com
Megan
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Megan posted this at 05:09 — 15th December 2001.
She has: 11,421 posts
Joined: Jun 1999
There are so many cool features in this thing! I keep discovering more. Like you can turn of pop-up windows. Yay! Good-bye. Turn off animated gif's, and embeded sound, video, etc. etc.. How nice of them.
They also have this thing called hot click, which is sort of like smart tags but not nearly as annoying or offensive. You double click on a word and you can search for it (using the engine of your choice), look it up in a dictionary or encyclopedia or translate into about 5 languages. No direct links to sites supposedly about that word (although the dictionary, encyclopedia and translation tool does use Lycos but that's minor IMO)
Right clicking on a photo gives you 6 options - save it, copy it, reload it, copy the image address (handy if you want to post an image on the forums here), view it's properties, or use it as a skin or desktop background. Handy.
This browser officially kicks butt. I can't stop marveling about how wonderful it is. Thank you Parker!
Megan
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Busy posted this at 09:02 — 19th December 2001.
He has: 6,151 posts
Joined: May 2001
Well after all the rave reviews I decided to bite the bullet and thry this for myself, (this is the first site I am viewing using opera) and I gotta say its quite impressive.
the staus bar will be the hardest to adapt to but I'm sure it will grow on me, (edit) just found you can have it at the bottom lol
one thing i did notice in quick prefences is how the browser is identified by, you can set it as mozilla, MSIE or Opera, this will really screw up stats lol
ok I just found out holding down the right mouse button and moving the mouse is a no no, lol it closes the window, haha
its true, you can teach old dogs new tricks
my only quams would be its problem displaying tables and the alt tags in graphics dont seem to be adjustable, or i havnet found that bit yet
Having several windows open in one browser can get confusing, you forget you have them open lol
Megan posted this at 14:24 — 19th December 2001.
She has: 11,421 posts
Joined: Jun 1999
This could come in handy when those jerks who can't bother to do cross browser testing won't let you into your site if you're not using IE. Has happened on occasion
You probably inadvertantly did a mouse gesture. If you hold your right mouse button down and move to the left, you'll go back, right and you'll go forward. Here's a list of all the mouse gestures:
http://www.opera.com/windows/mouse.html
Although I don't know how you could have inadvertantly done the close window one!
Megan
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merlin posted this at 14:43 — 19th December 2001.
They have: 410 posts
Joined: Oct 1999
anyway:
i visited a site and got a message from opera saying:
interesting. but could anyone tell me what exactly is illegal? or is only opera thinking the stuff is illegal (i.e. domain=.rmuk.co.uk)?
Brian Farkas posted this at 18:54 — 19th December 2001.
They have: 1,015 posts
Joined: Apr 1999
I noticed it said something about ads on their web site... Are there a bunch of ads in the browser if you do not register? Can someone post a screenshot?
Thanks,
Brian
Megan posted this at 19:04 — 19th December 2001.
She has: 11,421 posts
Joined: Jun 1999
There's just one banner ad at the top. I find that it is totally worth it but as you can tell I'm a big Opera fan
Here's a screenshot.
http://www.meganjack.com/opera.gif
Megan
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Busy posted this at 20:17 — 19th December 2001.
He has: 6,151 posts
Joined: May 2001
Its only been slow animated banners so far for me, doesnt seem to be to annoying yet, but the good thing about it is you can actually choose what sort of banners it display, (sports, shops, entertainment ...) and this is on the free version
bertiek posted this at 16:24 — 20th December 2001.
They have: 19 posts
Joined: Dec 2001
Since reading all the comments I decided to have a look at Opera.
There's no doubt it's a decent browser but unfortunately you have the same problem you get with NS i.e it follows the standards too rigidly. In an ideal world this would be great but as IE forgives sloppy coding you will continue to have pages that look great in IE but not in NS or Opera. At the moment a large proportion of web designers only design for IE due to the majority of surfers using that browser.
I ended up changing over to IE from NS for exactly this reason, although I didn't want to (security etc..)
IE adds lots of fancy tags with each version it releases and rightly or wrongly web designers like to use them. Unfortunately due to it's considerable lead in the market IE can do whatever it wants and will continue to do so until designers start designing using only the standards which I can't see happening.
What do you all think?
Megan posted this at 20:25 — 20th December 2001.
She has: 11,421 posts
Joined: Jun 1999
Honestly, I haven't had that many problems with pages not displaying right in Opera - actually, most of the ones I have had problems with are those that have been posted for critique and haven't been fully tested yet.
I can see the point of what you're saying, but I also think that Opera 6 and Mozilla have made some real advances in technology that haven't been mirrored by IE. IE 6 made very few improvements over v. 5.5. Oooohhhh, little print/save/e-mail buttons on photos. Whoop-de-do. But then, I really don't care if other people choose to use a browser with a simplistic user interface (and hey, for some simpler is better)
What I do care about, as a web developer, is progress in support for new technologies. IE still isnt't supporting the standards entirely and is really starting to lag behind the others. So, if IE continues to dominate, then we can't use new standards and the web continues to stagnate. Back when there was real competition between NS and IE support for new technologies really increased rapidly, but ever since IE took over the market there haven't been many changes. IE doesn't have full support for CSS-2 AFAIK (Opera and Mozilla do, with a few minor exceptions). It still doesn't support PNG with transparency (Opera and Mozilla do) as another example.
The great thing about standards is that, if you code correctly and if the browsers implement them correctly and consistently, there shouldn't be a problem with cross-browser display. However, the problem, as you said, is that many "designers" can't be bothered with them, or don't know about them, or for whatever reason don't even bother to do cross-browser testing!
So, I think it's our job as developers to promote the use of standards and progress in support for new standards. The only way this is going to happen is if there is competition in the browser market, with different browsers continually pushing each other to be better and better. Therefore, those interested in encouraging support for new technologies should also use alternative browsers and encourage others to do so as well.
Megan
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Busy posted this at 20:40 — 20th December 2001.
He has: 6,151 posts
Joined: May 2001
My motto is "do it once, do it right", or a second cup of coffee never hurt anyone
.
Opera is a strict browser in some ways but not 100% to the letter, a few things I have found playing around with it is this like, javascript (mostly mouseovers) are affected, the font tag around a non breaking space doesnt work and some other CSS issues (layers etc, nested div's).
You claim IE is the leader, I tended to believe that too up until a few days ago, my version of opera had the default set to be identified as IE5 and not as opera, how many people have downloaded Opera and not changed/seen that, looking at download.com there were something like about 6 million downloads of Opera, so i'd guess opera.com would have more, then all the other download sites, tucows etc.
Most local schools, librarys, cyber cafes etc use netscape as default, this i was even suprisd at, but its true (thats why Microsoft wants to give them all new PCs). Web designers who design for IE with only IE's toy tags arent in my mind real web designers, a web designer make a site that is universal, the really good ones make it not only universal but wap friendly, disabled friendly and multi language/cuture friendly.
zULuGriD posted this at 23:02 — 20th December 2001.
They have: 23 posts
Joined: Dec 2001
personally, i consider a web designer anyone who likes to make webpages. it doesn't matter if they make them compatable for all web browsers, or if they are disabled friendly, or any of that other stuff. they design webpages. its not their problem if it doesn't work on all browsers.
on the other hand, a web developer is a little different from a web designer. a web developer is supposed to develop webpages that are compatable for most people. they encompass everything a web designer is, but then they add in a bit more technicality to make sure everything works properly for everyone that will be viewing the page, because they are developing the page, not just designing it.
well thats my take on it. personally i'd say i'm more of a web designer then a developer; i don't really care (most of the time) if everyone can easily view my pages. most of my pages are made for very targeted groups of people, and so i rarely have a need to spend a bunch of time making sure it looks good in the 5 billion different browsers that people use and the zillion languages that people might be speaking.
in addition, many of the "new technologys", in my opinion, are a complete waste. example: i've never used PNG in my life, while should i care if opera supports PNG with transparency? another example: IE doesn't fully support CSS-2. So? Most older browsers don't support normal CSS, so if you truly wanted a cross-browser compatable website, then you would use as little CSS as possible anyway. so basically what i'm trying to say is, cross-compatable websites aren't realistic. the best you can do is pick the browsers that visitors to your site will MOST LIKELY use, and cater to those.
AllredTech Web Hosting
bertiek posted this at 23:29 — 20th December 2001.
They have: 19 posts
Joined: Dec 2001
You've both made some good points.
But I think you're coming from the perspective of web designers rather than Joe Public.
I think all Joe Public is interested in is seeing well displayed web pages, at the moment IE is best at that due to the reasons I mentioned above. Unless there is a tangible reason for changing to Opera or Netscape I don't think people will.
You make the point that Opera and Netscape have made some real advances that haven't been mirrored by IE.
That's the point I'm trying to make. Who cares if Opera and Netscape have advanced. Which web designer in their right mind is going to implement these advances in their website if it affects the display in IE. I know I certainly wouldn't.
Megan, you were so right about the advances made in standards when there was real competition. This is what we need again.
How do you think we, as web designers, can promote the use of other browsers, bearing in mind Microsoft are bundling IE with every PC sold. (Lets not get into the intricacies of the Microsoft lawsuit)
I don't think you can persuade people to change browser if the average webpage is displayed better by IE than NS or Opera which it is at the moment.
The only way I see other browsers catching up is if they emulate IE but give additional features.
Any ideas?
Megan posted this at 19:06 — 21st December 2001.
She has: 11,421 posts
Joined: Jun 1999
I completely disagree. It totally is their problem. I think that anyone who is trying to put a website up for the public to see should be concerned with whether or not people can see their sites given the users own browser/screen res/platform preferences. It doesn't take much to make a site that works in anything commonly used now.
I think you're misunderstanding me here. My point here is that if IE supported these standards then we would finally be able to use them! So, if people who CARE about progress in client-side technology started to use and promote the use of new browsers, we could push a little more competition into the market, which would push IE into supporting mooe standards, which would allow us to use them, which would allow us much more flexibility and control in terms of visual design! The sky's the limit after that! Now there's the glass celing that won't be broken until things change!
We are still looking into the future here. v. 5.x and lower browsers will certainly need to be elinated before these things can actually be used in practice. HOWEVER, Opera 6 and Mozilla (NS6) are taking steps in the right direction. They're there already. IE is the only v. 6 browser not to do this. So, now we have to wait for IE 7 and hope that makes some improvments. When will that happen? Years? We've already been waiting that long for PNG support and CSS-2 support etc. etc. PNG was first recommended by the w3c in 1996!
We can put buttons on our site linking to opera or mozilla, we can tell people about it, we can talk about how great it is (and from a user's perspective Opera is a WONDERFUL browser IMO). We can use them ourselves. We can develop pages that use more advanced CSS features and put a note saying "Best viewed in Opera 6" ha ha. No, I usually don't encourage that sort of thing, but I do feel strongly about this issue so I may actually consider doing that on a personal site or something. I don't have all the answers here, but we don't have to let them win.
As I alluded to above, I think the first thing that needs to happen is getting NS 4.x users to upgrade to a v. 5 or 6 browser - any of them. That's one step in the right direction. And it seems to me that, as Busy (ahem...) said, the main culprits here are schools, governments, libraries and other public institutions. I really wonder why they're not upgrading...
I'm not finding that to be true most of the time (two misconceptsions about Opera: 1. It doesn't display pages properly and 2. If it has ads it must not be any good) One real tangible reason for using Opera that has kept me using it is the amount of control and cusomization options you have. It's a browser for serious internet users, not for newbies. For me that's a "tangible" reason.
But, you know, maybe people won't upgrade at all. Maybe they'll just stick with IE 5 or whatever and stay there. maybe we'll be stuck with sketchy support for CSS-2, no transparent PNG, no SMIL, no SVG etc. forever!
Megan
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Busy posted this at 22:08 — 21st December 2001.
He has: 6,151 posts
Joined: May 2001
:cry:don't take my 4.7 away from me :whine:
but cereal, I will stop using 4.7 when there is some sort of universal agreement in standards. Microsoft has a bad history of not playing fair and with the others, they always want to be the leader in whatever and do whatever to do it, even if it screws up the web standards, but they will learn the hardway, NS and Opera are rapidly increasing in new users everyday, so unless IE7 bucks up its ideas they will be forgotten. NS and Opera arent pairing up, they arent even the same company but they are going at this standards level with the same outlook, to help us (people who work/play with web sites) to advance, my hat comes off to them and raspberries to mircosoft.
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