IE 7 - has anyone else tried it yet?

Here's a screenshot:

http://admmail.uwaterloo.ca/~mjjack/images/IE7.jpg

I tried IE7 a few months ago (brother is microsoft engineer), I just checked my sites with it as had heard some rumours about CSS support ... all held up. While the tabs is a nice feature it is nothing new if you have been using ff or O.
They have changed the interface a few times, and skins are becoming common. vista seems to be what everyone is wanting (not sure why)

The die hard IE fans will love it, the rest wont give a damn, isn't even worth downloading to test sites on.

Have never tried it as was on Win2K and now Linux, every other IE is available for Linux, it's possible to hack IE7's rendering engine into IE6 (so you get IE6' interface with the IE7 guts, so to speak). Not that I'd recommend it, just to let people know progress is being made.

Am still going to go out on a limb here and say that this is going to kill Firefox. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon...
The people aren't going to have a choice whether they recieve this, and it has the features that made people switch so far: Tabbed browsing, no ActiveX, popup blocking. So where's the incentive to switch? After that entropy will set in.

A few people might not like the interface, but I don't think there're many in that category. Your average idiot user will think: "Oooh spangly" and carry on, as long as the back button is where they expect it not much else matters.

They've also pacified web designers by fixing a few bugs, unfortunately this group seems to be just rolling-over and trusting Microsoft again. IMO.

There are a couple of things that could save firefox, for instance the £53 laptop ($100 laptop) will ship with Linux and will be able to connect to the Internet for them to use. There're also the people who aren't using Windows XP, they'll have to move to a different browser (or upgrade) when web designers stop designing for ie6.

Busy wrote: vista seems to be what everyone is wanting (not sure why)

I'd disagree with that, most people in the hardcore geek world think it's bloated and ugly. I wouldn't listen to your brothers propaganda.

Check this from: http://digg.com/software/Windows_Vista_The_choose_your_own_adventure_UI

Dracos wrote:
Wow, there are 3 separate craptastic visual styles in Vista? And Classic, of course.

I suspect that the eye candy is a significant factor in why Vista is taking so long. MS has been looking at OSX for years and needs to see that ante. And now they've apparently split their hand twice, trying to match it with 3 different styles.

I run 2k, but when I have to use an XP box for any amount of tiem, I turn off the default Fisher-Price interface. It looks bad, childish, and MS shouldn't be allowed to mix graphics and interface elements, they're horrible at it.

Of course, 5 years on, MS seems to have picked up some sophistication in the UI department. Nothing says "Not for children under 3, choking hazard" because it looks like cheap plastic. Just more expensive plastic.

But, like many other visual gimmicks, MS is playing up transparency too much. This is going to have a more drastic result on most users than MS realizes, and the results won't be what MS expects.

At least MS is still being consistent on one way: certain "high usage" Windows addons get to ignore the UI. In UI design, exceptions are bad, m'kay.

Generally, windows need transparent chrome or drop shadows, not both. Those shadows are too dark, also. If someone has that much trouble identifying where their windows are, they need to switch to Classic and explore the accessibility control panel.

I think MS' UI design is a microcosm of MS as a whole:

It tries to be cool, fails, and never understands why.
It learns a new trick and immediately gets hamhanded with it, even before they can study it.
It can't find a way to be consistent, no matter how much effort is put into this.
It copies its competitors far more often than vice versa.
It has no concept of subtlety.

This is a bit extreme, and Vista does have it's supporters, but I believe most people will stick with XP. Including big companies.

Liam wrote: Am still going to go out on a limb here and say that this is going to kill Firefox. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon... The people aren't going to have a choice whether they recieve this, and it has the features that made people switch so far: Tabbed browsing, no ActiveX, popup blocking. So where's the incentive to switch? After that entropy will set in.

But you haven't actually seen it, right? So how can you say what people will or will not do when you haven't attempted to even use it? IE has had pop-up blocking for awhile now (the implementation is crap though, don't know why people put up with that). I think you're really overreacting when you say it's going to kill Firefox. Firefox has a very strong following. A very strong following of people who will tell others to use it. They will not switch back. The people they convinced to use it think their Firefox friend knows what he's talking about so they'll keep it. And why should they switch back to IE and learn another interface anyway? Entropy works in their favour. If nothing else those people have realized that there are alternatives.

Why should additional users switch when IE has all the key features? Maybe FF does need to figure out what the next steps are. Opera, on the other hand, is starting to do a better job with their marketing (I'm not saying better than FF, I mean better than they used to do). They have figured out who their audience is and are going for it.

To be honest, I think IE 6 was a perfectly suitable browser for the average, beginner user. I don't have a problem with *some* people using the simpler, more user friendly option. IE 7, on the other hand, is not. They're obviously trying to comepete directly with Firefox which has led to an abandonment of the newbiew audience who they should be serving. So what do the newbies do? I feel bad for them because now they're going to be forced to use a bad tool. And so what if some people continue to use Internet Explorer? We're never going to be able to get everyone to convert over. People can use what they like. Competition in the browser market is good

Liam wrote: A few people might not like the interface, but I don't think there're many in that category. Your average idiot user will think: "Oooh spangly" and carry on, as long as the back button is where they expect it not much else matters.

As I said, after actually seeing the interface and attempting to use it, I disagree. I think *some* will love it, *some* will put up with it, but *some* will go looking for something else.

LIam wrote: They've also pacified web designers by fixing a few bugs, unfortunately this group seems to be just rolling-over and trusting Microsoft again. IMO.

. I think people will get to the end of their ropes on this pretty soon too. Once they figure out that IE 7 doesn't offer any real improvements in CSS support. I don't really understand why they haven't figured this out though, and keep crowing about how great the improvements are.

What ticks me off is that MS whines about how they didn't have time to make more improvements in the rendering engine, yet they seem to have tons of time to make completely unnecessary interface changes.

Then, as you said, if people don't want to switch to Vista, aren't they going to start looking at other options? What happens when MS stops supporting XP? I sort of think that the whole vista/IE 7/expression/zune thing is a make it or break it point for MS.

And, regarding your arguement - why will people love the spangly IE 7 but hate the spangly vista???

One more thing I didn't mention - RC1 has a really annoying inability to cutomize the interface. 6 at least lest you move your toolbars around. In 7 you can't. Your address bar is at the top whether you like it or not. You can't move the buttons around. You can't get the home and tools off the tab bar. I think this is something that might change in the final release but for now it's a major annoyance.

Just thinking about it little more - maybe people will leave Firefox but not because they like IE 7. Firefox has had some speed (? forget what the actual problem is...) issues for awhile now that many have complained about. This could cause some to leave - but will they gravitate back to IE? Not necessarily.

Firefox does have a bit of a marketing problem now but I'm not sure they can't overcome that. Now that IE 7 has the key features it will be hard to convince an average user that they need something else. What's the incentive? The interface is more like what they're used to. It's simpler and easier to use (relatively speaking! Not that I think FF is a usability marvel.). But, on the other hand, firefox is a browser made for the advanced user which is now what IE is trying to be. I think their response to IE 7 will be what makes or breaks them. IE 7 won't kill them, but their response to it could.

Sorry I keep arguing - I don't really want to debate this actually. I think we've been over it already. Please don't respond to every bit!!

Megan wrote: Then, as you said, if people don't want to switch to Vista, aren't they going to start looking at other options? What happens when MS stops supporting XP? I sort of think that the whole vista/IE 7/expression/zune thing is a make it or break it point for MS.

You're right that people might start looking for other options, but that won't be for a while yet. One big problem for Vista is people don't really feel the urge to upgrade. They're happily able to surf the Internet and answer e-mail using what they've got. So it's not necessarily the case that people will switch to something else, it's that they wont want to change anything.

I agree that how much Microsoft tries to force people to upgrade, and whether they drop support for XP quickly, is going to be a big factor.

Megan wrote: And, regarding your arguement - why will people love the spangly IE 7 but hate the spangly vista???

They won't love it, they just won't really care. They won't care because IE7 will be given to them at no cost (albeit with no choice). But Vista costs money. Eye-candy is nice, but not that important.

I totally agree that it's make or break time for Microsoft. I'm just taking the glum, pessimistic approach that the big Corp with the massive marketing budget will always win, even if their product is crap. Especially if they can carry on exploiting their - frankly monopolistic - contracts with hardware manufacturers. Although zune will be a failure, but MS can afford that when it has $35 billion in the bank to play with.

The reason I've got this opinion is not because of the evidence, but because I am so desperate for Firefox/Opera to beat IE that I dare not hope it'll happen. If it does happen I'll be a very happy person though.

You can install it without overwriting 6. Here is the site with the download I used:

http://tredosoft.com/IE7_standalone

(scroll down to get to the actual download link)

Jeeves - I do think you're being overly pessimistic. I know how you are with these things But there really is no reason to freak out. More and more people are switching to Mac or Linux (slowly but surely!). Firefox has a really die hard following. If people don't upgrade from IE 6 there may be a need for another Browser Upgrade Campaign. That worked the first time Only this time they'll be upgrading to Firefox or Opera instead of IE 7.

I also think that this problem is partly caused by bad marketing by the alternatives. In the browser market that blame goes to netscape who seriously dropped the ball and let IE totally beat their pants off in the version 4 era. The Mozilla project then took forever to get to a usable state and people forgot that there were choices. The Firefox fans have done a decent job of converting people but it's still not as saturated as it could be. And Opera? Even tech-savvy people barely knew they existed until recently and many still haven't even tried it.

In the PC market the Mac marketing was okay for awhile when they were coming out with the spangly iMac's. They never did do a good job of explaining to people why they should switch from a PC (even though most people who do really love it!). Linux has been around for ages but hasn't been able to hit the mainstream at all. I'm even having trouble finding someone local to make me a linux compatible PC with no OS installed! Is all of that Microsoft's fault? Maybe partially, but the alternatives need to do a much better job of communicating the benefits of their products and why people should change.

Oooh, I like the look of the new IE7. I'm really more a Firefox guy though but I probably will have to experiment with the new version of Internet Explorer to keep tabs on my sites. Also, the whole 'tabs' feature is awesome and something I've not seen in previous versions of IE. It's what drew me to other browsers like Opera and Firefox, to be honest.

Megan wrote: Linux has been around for ages but hasn't been able to hit the mainstream at all.

I'll pick you up on a small point here. Linux has only been around since 1991. It hasn't hit the mainstream because most people would have found it difficult to install and use. Mind you: depends what your definition of "ages" is!

Things are changing though, for better or worse GNU+Linux is gaining ground.

Megan wrote: I'm even having trouble finding someone local to make me a linux compatible PC with no OS installed!

True, the problem here is that geeks form the backbone of the GNU+Linux community and they don't buy pre-built PC's, they build their own!

Anyway, I digress! Maybe I am being pessimistic, we'll just have to see how many people are Firefox fanatics and how many are like Shaun. Not really bothered either way. These are the people that'll make or break either browser, as they are the ones who can be swayed either way.