frames VS something else

5 years of html and you haven't explored server-side scripting? That's impressive!

PHP, ASP are server-side languages, CSS is what you should be using with the HTML to style the page (fonts, positioning, colours, even images).

Using server-side languages to include content is indeed the norm now, and it's the easiest to maintain (easier still than frames). Do not use tables unless you really really need to (like for tabular data).

Well I suggest PHP as it is a good server side language, and it's quite a bit like programming in english and it's quite easy update too

Well those 5 years of html started when I was 14. I just took forever to learn everything and web pages really became a hobby as of this year.

Could you direct me to a good place to learn the basics of php or asp. Which one would work better for what I want to do? My server supports both asp and php. Also, is asp.net the same as asp?

No, the .NET platform is far more like JSP (Java Servlets or Java Server Pages), in that the pages are put together dynamically, but compiled on the server and served that way to the public until changes are made. M$ likes to rip off good ideas...

PHP and ASP (not asp.NET) are also dynamically generated pages, but they are generated for each call for the page.

http://www.hotscripts.com/PHP/Tips_and_Tutorials

Ok before I go off and learn php, can anyone tell me the disadvantages and advantage of php and asp? Just ones related to what I mention in this thread. Sorry about requesting so much info, but I will be spending a lot of time learning whatever one I choose.

no real disadvantages, heaps of advantages thou, php is easy to learn and use and can be used with or without a database.

html is static meaning once it's there, its there and you can't do much with it, with php, which is server side you can get user input to control what they see. this forum for example uses php and mysql.

here is a basic template style using php

html stuff

This is basically all it is, without going into a php lesson, the included files included can be .inc .txt, .html, .phtml, .php, .inc.php etc and the "include" can be require, include_once, etc like anything always more than one way to do it.
If you have used javascript (included scripts etc) its just like that but you can do more, and have more happening. zend.com has some tutorials, one is the top 21 mistakes made using php and mysql - worth a look once you got the basics down other wise you wont know what the heck they are on about good luck

And in PHP if your not sure if it works or not, just try it because just about anything you do will work

If you want a quick solution you could always use Server Side includes. Very simple to implement and you don't have to learn a lot of programming at all. I'm still using these since I haven't gotten around to learning PHP or anything like that (and at this rate, maybe I never will!!).

Here's a good tutorial on SSI's:

http://www.bignosebird.com/ssi.shtml

What you'll do is cut your pages up into three sections - the header and footer areas that will be seen on every page, and the content which will be different. Then you'll just instert two little tags to put the header and footer before and after the content. Pretty simple.

That's the best way to use PHP includes as well...

<? include "header.php"; ?>
This is the main heading
content
<? include "footer.php"; ?>

Occasionally I'll have some php above the header include, setting variables for the page, such as title or meta tags as well. Othertimes, that information will be conditionally set in the header.php file.

With SSI, you can do the same thing.

Suzanne,

You made a comment earlier in this thread to stay away from tables regarding Menus and content. Is that right, or were you referring to something else?

using nested tables for what are essentially lists is just making things more complicated than they need to be, that's all. an unordered (or ordered) list that's styled will result in a more accessible, sensible and easily edited navigation menu, and it can be styled in many ways.

We've discussed some of the ways a number of times in these forums as well.

Nested tables can, for the most part, be avoided with better coding practices.

Thanks. The three c's, Clean, Clear, and Concise.

You could go with iframes too if you still don't wanna hit server side stuff yet. They're rediculously easy to code.

I have used iframes before, they seem to work good, but they only work on certain browsers right?

I picked up a book on php and I am learning that, my friend who has a good knowledge or C++ (he is a comp science major) is learning asp.net
We are hoping to combine our skills to create the page.

In my experience they work in IE 5.x and netscape 6.x and up. Granted they're not the most accessible web feature but I figure if it works on at least two flavors of browsers thats good enough.

I still odn't recommmend it because more and more people are beginning to use alternative browsers like opera and mozillq, so you will be stopping them from viewing your page properly, which is a big no no

If something works in NS 6 it works in mozilla (since NS 6 is based on mozilla, they necessarily support the same things for the most part). They also work in Opera so no problems there (except I woulnd't say that this is the best way to go about doing this, but whatever...)

iframes are part of the standard, but the point is to be able to do things like scrolling content in weird places like is hacked up with dhtml, not to replace ease-of-use technologies like server-side programming.

Not that intent is law, ha!