Copyright and freedom

pmj7's picture

He has: 234 posts

Joined: Nov 2002

I've been contacted about a photograph on one of my websites. The photograph shows a woman standing in front of a poster at a health show. The poster copyright holder says that it's copyright infringement, and that I have to take the photo down.

This is ridiculous. Does anyone have a URL that I can send back to these people to show that they don't have the right to get me to take it down? What are they thinking? "Hey, you can't help us promote our product, we might sell more...?!?"

Where does it all end? Ooops, look out, that photo you took shows a bit of a corner store that sells postcards... That photo you took of the street has banners, they're copyrighted too...

For those interested, it's the final photo for this article... http://www.SuperNaturalWoman.com/article45.htm

For now, I'm going to blur the poster out of existence.

Peter

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Pixel Development Web Design, Photography

Suzanne's picture

She has: 5,507 posts

Joined: Feb 2000

The problem is that this poster is an integral part of the photograph. If it wasn't (was just in the shot by accident or because it was on the wall), then sure, they'd be being petty, but with Katherine mirroring the pose and clearly the point of the photo is to include the poster...

Sure it's not in their best interests, when they could push the message, but they are, in my non-legal opinion, on the right side of the fair-use law.

If people don't defend their copyright, they lose it.

JeevesBond's picture

He has: 3,956 posts

Joined: Jun 2002

Sorry to say that's the way it is!
Have a read of "The Future of Ideas" by Lawrence Lessig, he's one of the lawyers who fought against Microsoft in that anti-trust case.

It's a great book, which specifically talks about copyright freedom/corporate infringement of peoples rights on the net, should make things a little clearer for you Smiling

a Padded Cell our articles site!

pmj7's picture

He has: 234 posts

Joined: Nov 2002

Well, I'm sure you both are correct. It does seem a dubious start to a business relationship though. We contacted them about selling their product, and they agreed. The next email was about the photo.

Peter

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Pixel Development Web Design, Photography

Suzanne's picture

She has: 5,507 posts

Joined: Feb 2000

He has: 1,758 posts

Joined: Jul 2002

You might also wanna checkout http://www.whatiscopyright.org/

They have: 38 posts

Joined: Feb 2003

another useful link for all online copyright, privacy policies and the such is http://www.ivanhoffman.com/internet.html.

He is an attorney who has done a lot of research and written about alot of internet rights issues, copyright freedoms included.

pmj7's picture

He has: 234 posts

Joined: Nov 2002

Interesting links, I checked out http://www.whatiscopyright.org/ because it looked briefer! Wink

"Fair use or fair practice is utilization of a portion of a copyrighted work "as is" for purposes of parody, news reporting, research and education about such copyrighted work without the permission of the author."

While the text on the page may be in the form of a poem, it could be considered a 'news report' describing what could be seen at the 2003 Wellness Show. The company name and link is provided in the text. Since I didn't take that picture and wasn't present at the event, I think I did pretty much all that could be expected. Some may feel differently! Wink

"Fair use or fair practice is utilization of a portion (Katherine stands in front of the poster, obscuring some of it, so it is only a portion - and come on, it's only 200 pixels wide!) of a copyrighted work "as is" for purposes of parody, news reporting (yep), research and education about such copyrighted work without the permission of the author."

FYI: In our case, I found out that the poster owner is a different distributor than the one we are now associated with.

Peter

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Pixel Development Web Design, Photography

Suzanne's picture

She has: 5,507 posts

Joined: Feb 2000

I think you'll find that "portion" means the lesser portion, not the larger portion. The amount that is obscured and the relative amounts of the photo taken by the copyrighted work v. the original work would be the issue to be decided.

As you read through the links, pay special attention to lawsuits that involve posters -- those have historically resulted in anything more than 50% of the photo being of the copyright work being decided against the person taking the photo that included the copyrighted work. Sometimes less.

It's not up to anyone but the copyright holder to determine whether the modifications are acceptable, though.

pmj7's picture

He has: 234 posts

Joined: Nov 2002

Protection of copyrighted work is a good thing.

I guess it just bothered me that someone had a problem with a photo of an Ad! I can't see a representative from GM tapping me on the shoulder saying "Hey, you can't take a picture of this billboard showing our latest truck! People might hear about it! They might want to buy it! We might make money! What kinda sicko are you, a Capitalist or something?" Wink

In any case, I need no more information or convincing. I have fuzzed out the poster to a featureless blob. I will probably rework the photo or take another, as at present Katherine appears to be holding up a plastic bag of cool-aid! Smiling

I appreciate everyone's feedback. Smiling

Peter

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Pixel Development Web Design, Photography

They have: 59 posts

Joined: Apr 2003

Whatever their reasons, I think it's best to just cooperate, even if it doesn't make any sense to you. You'll look like the better person in the end if you just apologize, politely state why you didn't feel you infringed on any copyrights and that you'll remove the "offensive" part of the picture. Then what can they gripe about!?!

pmj7's picture

He has: 234 posts

Joined: Nov 2002

I just replied to their email, stating that I had blurred the poster in the image to a featureless blob. Got a 'Thanks' and I guess that's the end of it.

Peter

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Pixel Development Web Design, Photography

Jimmy Changa's picture

They have: 220 posts

Joined: Mar 2003

To return the "favor" you might try bugging them about giving you written permission to use that blurred poster picture. Wink

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