Web development languages: really basic questions and which one for web apps?

How does Javascript, Ajax and PHP come into the mix when using RoR or Java? Used with them or as alternatives?

PHP is an alternative (and a better one IMO).

-----If I learnt RoR, would I still need to learn html and css?

Yes - all these server side languages would return HTML & CSS in some way because that it what the client's web browser uses to form the page.

W3Schools is a good place to start to learn something like PHP.

Also welcome to the forums .

Cheers mate
Looks like I better start off there then, thanks for that and cheers for the welcome
Anything other than css/html that I need to start off learning? Should I start learning javascript as well?
I have done a fair bit more looking into this and the only things I am left wondering are:
Which should I learn after html/css - java/grails, ruby/ror, python/django, scala/lift - I think It is good because I can start out with the 'best' language rather than choosing a framework based on what I know. Obviously this is a hard question to answer - I know there is no 'best', however I would like to hear people weigh in on different aspects.
Is ruby on rails a front end or back end framework?

I'm not developer, so I can't say much about particular languages, but you will need a strong understanding of Javascript. It is a huge part of interface design these days.

Thanks for that, I will definitely aim to learn Javascript early on.

I had asked this question on a few other forums, and I have summarised the responses below. If you have anything to add, please do:

And to quickly note: I am aiming to develop web apps, not just websites - similar to Basecamp, Remember The Milk, Hunch.com, evernote, Freshbooks etc.

Java and Ruby are comparable as both are languages. Java is combiled, Ruby is scripted.
Rails is a web framework for Ruby.
Java equivalent to Rails = Spring MVC/Tiles framework or Struts/tiles, or Grails

There will always be scaling issues, and this shouldn't be worried about at the start.
Rails can actually be very easy to scale as this is one if its features.
Plenty of popular apps built using Rails: Basecamp, GitHub.
Also, scalability issues will be addressed as the language develops - Java has been around for years of performance tuning.
Very interesting note: 'it is cheaper to build a scalable product with a fast development language like Ruby where you can add servers as you need them than it is to develop in a slower-to-code environment (e.g. arguable Java).'

Rails is a backend web framework for Ruby, a general programming language.

Ajax is Javascript - clientside. PHP is an alternative to RoR or Java.
AJAX allows you to make requests to the server (which would be handled with RoR, PHP, Java etc) and to receive data back from the server without refreshing the page.
PHP is a very similar language to Java.

Definitely, along with Javascript - also, get familiar with the DOM.
Should I learn XML?
I should start with learning these languages before moving onto a backend language w/ framework.
Also, as I am looking to code web apps, not just sites, I should learn SQL.

Yes? Java applets are client side and Javascript is client side.

Only for Java applets, which are essentially dead. Not for Java deployed on a server.

Back end.

Yes. CDN handles your content (images, css, js, views), then you will also have a db host/webhost (usually combined)
The webhost handles the Models (db handles) and the controllers.

Look at the typing methods of each languages - strong/weak.
Differing syntaxes - verbose like VB, or short syntax.
Will depend on: cost, scalability, maintenance, learning curve, time to launch, language capabilities.

Cautions against Scala and Lift for a beginner - not mainstream enough.
+ for ExtJS.
PHP frameworks: CodeIgniter, CakePHP are good. Zend Framework is terrible. Hydrogen is a PHP toolkit. Frameworks often force you to comply with their methods of doing things, which can be good for a beginner.
PHP > RoR due to popularity - means highly supported, huge community support, easy to scale, however RoR is gaining momentum.
RoR: harder to find a reliable webhost that suppors Rails.
Python: most popular framework is Django, again harder to find a reliable host.
Java = cumbersome, complicated. Fast, scalable - however can be daunting to learn. You need to learn the language, as well as how to use it to manipulate web pages - before it becomes powerful you need to learn libraries like Struts, Spring, Hibernate, Log4j and XMLbeans.
Then you also need to to use Ant an Maven - and terminology such as EAR, WAR. More suited to massive operations for big corporations.

This thread is interesting. Can anybody correct the order of difficulty or the stages in which I'm going to learn them all? HTML, javascript, CSS, PHP, AJAX. Is that the correct order or do I miss something?

you can select any of server side scripting language. like asp.net, php etc..ike php beacause it is easy to use. and simple to understand.

i was in the same dilemma before but i just choose to start learning one at time..W3School helps me more to understand and learn more about php..but still i need more knowledge and practices.

The best way is to use notepad and write raw HTML coding, before doing this make sure you lookup some basic HTML tags and how they are used?

John Zhao
Photographer
{links removed}

You can go for Asp.Net, PHP, AJAX. They are easier and simpler to understand and also are in much demand nowdays............