Is she holding together?

All looks fine & works fine in IE5

All's well in Opera 6

Using IE 4. something for a macintosh, im in a school lab. Looks great here, the patches at the bottom, the two, seem a little off center, so i don't know if that is a problem with tables or not

but looking good

Quote: patches at the bottom, the two, seem a little off center, so i don't know if that is a problem with tables or not

My what good eyes you have. Table problem....opps!! It is fixed now. Thanks!!

ahh, much better. Very nice.

Shall I be the bearer of bad (read: netscape) news?

I checked it in both. There are a few small IE6 problems but first (shudder) Netscape 4.78...

- stylesheet doesn't appear to be recognized. Fonts are all default

- navigation bar is stacked vertically rather than displayed horizontally making for one thick black bar!

- home page layout (table?) doesn't center

- some images on "Stations" and "Apparatus" overlap each other.

Phew! All said, things are pretty much a mess in Netscape, sorry

In IE6:

Some of the photos don't line up well especially at high res. Namely, "Stations" and "Apparatus" pages.

hey - try rel="xml-stylesheet" - from this page

also, I'd say the last paragraph of text needs a little work - the next to last sentence doesn't have a subject - it's definitely tough to get all that info down, but I don't think you quite have it yet - and maybe remove the punctuation from the blurb under the right-hand patch

In NS6 the corner sections has a gap, between the bit going down and the bit across, isnt there on NS4.7, opera or IE.

The NS4.7 fault could be something simple (and would still validate to XHTML specs), at a guess it could be the extra width=100% in your top td, if your worried about it and want it working in NS4.7, let me know and i'll go thru it.

many ways to skin a cat and all valiadate to the specs ...

Quote: navigation bar is stacked vertically rather than displayed horizontally making for one thick black bar!

You gotta be kidding. You are talking like up and down the page instead of left and right??

I am aware of the images on the stations and apparatus pages being a tad out of line in IE at high res. I have tried to fix this but can't find what the problem is. Think I may need to re-do my tables a different way. The little border images that I have just above the main text part on the left and right seem to be causing more problems than they are worth. Maybe need to rethink them also.

Quote: hey - try rel="xml-stylesheet" - from this page

I saw what you are talking about but I am not sure exactly how to put this in the code.

MMI...I will brush up on my sentence structure and fix that one. Actually, most of the text is the first draft of what they wanted. It isn't complete and hasn't been checked for errors.

Busy, I took several extra 100% widths in the 's. See if that fixed it. I have to go teach a class but will be back to take care of this matter later tonight. Any help would be appreciated. I hate to get rid of the little corner thingys at the top just because they won't line up.

Thanks
DM

I haven't had a chance to peek at the code but here are a few quick Netscape screenshots.

http://www.sitesunseen.com/twf/dm_tallassee1.jpg
http://www.sitesunseen.com/twf/dm_tallassee2.jpg
http://www.sitesunseen.com/twf/dm_tallassee3.jpg

I think the "little border images" look great and doubt that they are the culprits. Keep 'em if you can!

I had a quick look at your code and css file (like the name ), I have to go to work *sigh* but noticed your css order, I forget the exact order but think the css font part has to be at the end (in your css line up), (not sure if there is an order for them at the end, size, family, decoration or decoration, size, family or something) to display correctly in order browsers, I think early IE is affected by this as well.

You wont have to loose your corner thingys , if anything you may have to choose either html or css as your using both its causing a few conflicts, but I'll have a look after work if no one else has found the problem.

also noticed Opera and IE have the same size font, but both NS (4.7 and 6) have smaller font, NS displays about normal, the others are bigger than default

Quick hint without looking at the code:

1. line-height in a makes the images line up weird in Netscape. Solution: put images in a div without line-height or align the images (not valid).

Looking at the code:

2. I recognize the error with the navigation, also a CSS glitch. First off, you're going to have to ditch the font tags. Then remove text-align: center; from the .subnav declaration. It's redundant, anyway, since you're centering the . It's read weird in Netscape and you don't need it anyway.

3. Netscape 6 has issues with the DOCTYPE -- check with evolt.org on that, I can't recall the specifics. Or with w3c.org -- some DOCTYPES if not recognized ones, will generate odd table errors in Netscape 6.

Suzanne

hey - on line 11:<link rel="stylesheet" href="style/simple.css" type="text/css" />'try changing that to<link rel="xml-stylesheet" href="style/simple.css" type="text/css" />'

I had it with work, way to hot, so i'm back again

its a CSS problem for sure, really you need to redo the css side of it, but here are a few things you can do to fix the nav section in NS4.7 with your current css

because your using css margin coding and padding etc in your css, its confusing vers4, you can remove 99% of it as none of its really needed nor used.
remove all the font details in your submenu css tag, all you need is COLOR: white; FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-WEIGHT: bold; the rest isnt needed as you have already decleared them in the body css tag
your submenu links should really be written a:link.submenu with class="submenu" in each link tag, but the way you have done it works (more than one way to skin a cat remember)
use cellpadding="3" in your table holding the top nav links, and you dont need all the vlaign, height etc
the img bit isnt needed in your css.

you have a lot of row and cols spans, youd be better off seperating your tables, making it fster loading, easily editing (now and in future) and easier to fix alignment problems, here one way to do it

top image and nav in one table
image under that not in a table, display in div align center with br top and bottom for depth.
content (including corner sections) as another table stoping at the "our patches)
the word our patchs and under could be done in another table or laid out seperatly.

The above css fixs will make the navigation work same in all browsers, taking away all margins in css will also fix the image problems, removing the doctype tag fixes the NS6 problem, remember you dont need that doc type tag, except for validating.

Just a note -- if you don't use a DOCTYPE, then the newer browsers will render the code based on the oldest version of HTML that it renders -- which can also break your pages.

I would recommend making sure you have the correct DOCTYPE rather than just removing it.

Suzanne

Alrighty:) I have been working diligently on fixing all these things that were brought to my attention.

I have re-worked the style sheet and the tables on the HOME PAGE only. I may still have some issues with the style sheet. It validated but but had a few minor things wrong with it. The other pages aren't fixed yet and they have the old style sheet with a few changes...no need to worry about those for now.

Thanks for the screen shots Taff. I haven't gotten to that page yet but will not forget to fix it.

The style sheet that MMI recommended appeared to have turned off the CSS so I didn't use that.

I left the DOCTYPE. Busy and I had a discussion about this in an earlier thread and I found many conflicting things on this but I think I'll have to agree with Suzanne after looking some more last night.

Quote: I would recommend making sure you have the correct DOCTYPE rather than just removing it

How do I know if I have the correct DOCTYPE?? I am using the transitional one. Is that OK?

Busy I did the table like you suggested(or tried to anyway). Not sure if that will fix the layout problems. I sorta think my layout problems may have been caused by the old style sheet.???

I also checked it with the style sheet turned off and the page is readable without it so that should take care of the accessability issues in case NS4 has a bad day. (i suppose)

Again...this is the page that I need checked right now:
HOME PAGE

The only fault I can find in IE6 is:

"Click patches to view their larger image." and your bottomline.gif aren't centered - they lean to the left, almost flush with the left patch.

In Netscape 4.78:

Your Black nav bar doesn't reach the edges of the screen. No biggy but adding marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" to you body tag should fix that.

Lookin' good d-m!

marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" isn't valid XHTML so i can't use those. Would it work in NS if I put the margins at 0px?

oh yeah - the xhtml thing. I forgot

No, the margins="0" won't work in Netscape 4.x

Like I said, it isn't a big thing really - I only noticed it because I was jumping from one browser to the other

Keegan just changed some of the table stuff for me. Wasn't sure it that would take care of the black bar not going all the way across in NS but could you look again?

Home Page

nope. the only way around it for Netscape 4.x is the marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" bit. I don't think this is even valid HTML4 but ya gotta do what ya gotta do sometimes.

Taff's right, the margin border tags in your body tag isnt html standard - never has been, same as table height for some strange reason.
for what its worth the black not going full width dosnt look to bad, something like that you could get away with because it doesnt affect your layout, design or most importantly your content.
Theres no work around for the margins in css (except using margins in your body tag) for ver4

It all displays the same in NS4.7, NS6, IE5 and Opera6
except,
IE5, the home and members (top nav) dont a:hover,
none of the a:hovers work on NS6
the a:hover works in Opera but the margins are same as NS4.7

all 4 have the same font size now , all the corner thingys line up well done

Quote: except,
IE5, the home and members (top nav) dont a:hover,
none of the a:hovers work on NS6

All I can think of that is causing this is i have the visited links set to white in my style sheet. If i leave this off it defaults to the gray color of the links at the bottom of the page. What would I change so that they will hover yellow even after they have been visited??

I believe that everything has been corrected for this whole site. (except for the hover thing i mentioned in my above post that no one answered:D and is my doctype correct)

If you will kindly look and make sure there are no alignment issues, especially at high res, I promise I will not pester you with a Critique.

Oh, MMI how does that next to last sentence sound now on the home page?

NEW F.D. HOME PAGE

would you consider a bulleted list?

Quote: Ximinez: Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise....
Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency....
Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope....
Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise....
I'll come in again.

Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency,
an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope, and nice red uniforms - Oh damn!

[To Cardinal Biggles] I can't say it - you'll have to say it.

Biggles: What?

Ximinez: You'll have to say the bit about 'Our chief weapons are ...'

Biggles: [rather horrified]: I couldn't do that...

http://ememi.com/tmp/tunes/spinquis.wav

Ok is that a joke MMI?? I didn't understand your reasoning behind that reply. Bullited list???

I'm suggesting placing the "purpose(s) of this nonprofit organization" into one 'a these:

http://www.bignosebird.com/docs/h13.shtml

Oh I see. You have a point there. That would break up some of the same ole, same ole wouldn't it? Let me see bout that.

Oh here is the new home page link:
F.D. HOME PAGE

add a:active.nav ... to your links

not sure about the doctype, They keep changing so I just never use them - sorry

the word (link) "members", in most sites its going to ask you to sign in etc, but in your case its about your members, maybe another word? "the people" maybe, would hate for anyone to miss bits of the site because of what we've come to believe are key words for things.

you could put your contact details more aligned

phy address - mailing address

phone - email

instead of centered, but apart from that looking goooood

hey - nice list - I think you should delete the leading "To" from the ones that have it - still a comma under the right-hand patch that I can't figure - I think I might be able to help ya improve those blurbs, esp. #4, but no time at the moment

Hover needs to be the last declaration.

so, a, a:link, a:active, a:visited, a:hover.

I think you can switch visited and hover, but it's best last.

Suzanne

Suzanne you are just awesome in my opinion. That worked!! I wasn't aware that order of the links, active, visited and hover would actually make a difference in how it rendered. I went to your web site, No Bull, last night looking for some css help but didn't see any. You should add that to your site.?

Busy and MMI, I thank you too and will make those changes. I am satisified for now..until more content is added and photos re-taken.

Thanks all!!!!

DM

Glad to hear you have it working.

The very moment I stop working so hard, ha ha, I'll get on the help section for my site. Until then, I'll just keep answering questions on the forums.

Suzanne