Photoshop vs. Paintshop Pro

Quote: Oiginally posted by Busy
photoshop is a good program BUT is very bulky, slow loading, a resource hog and costs the earth, where as PSP does everything photoshop does, loads fast, doesnt hog all the computer and costs a fraction of the cost of its rivals

I know the photoshop guys and gals will have their say on this , it comes down to what you prefer, these two could even be compared to IE and Netscape

He he, yup! I will have to start out by saying that I haven't used PSP since v. 5. How is it coming along with masking? I'm suspecting that PSP can't do the kind of complex masking and layer effects that PS can do. What about colour pallettes (I always hated the way PSP managed colour)? Built in filters? I'll have to check out PSP 7.

The other major difference is that Photoshop is the industry standard for raster graphics. If you want to get a "real" job doing graphics work you must know photoshop. You won't find a lot of major companies using PSP.

Those are pretty advanced features though. I would say that for a beginner PSP would do just fine.

Then mairving wrote:

PSP is about $100. Photoshop 6.0 is around $600US for the full version. I love Photoshop and couldn't be without it. I haven't used PSP since it was shareware. Photoshop is as Megan said the one that to get if you can. Is it worth $600? No way, I have never seen a program yet that was worth that much. I think that Abobe's pricing on their products is attrocious. Adobe's exorbitant prices are probably why there programs are the most cracked or copied programs out there. They have done little to prevent this since all that is required is a serial number to install the program.

Anyway I would never buy a full version of Photoshop but it can be legally got other ways. For instance, a couple of years ago I bought a $300 scanner that came with a full version of Photoshop. Been upgrading ever since.

Then Busy wrote:
This is mainly answering Megan's PSP questions -

PSP started using layers, masks two color palettes in version 5, vrsion 6 came vectors etc, version 7 (i havent got) but is meant to be the most advanced graphic setup to date (waiting for adobe to catch up )

Quote: The other major difference is that Photoshop is the industry standard for raster graphics. If you want to get a "real" job doing graphics work you must know photoshop. You won't find a lot of major companies using PSP.

Those are pretty advanced features though. I would say that for a beginner PSP would do just fine.
hmmm, ok its true you dont see many job titles asking for PSP experience but if you worked freelance, contract or for yourself no one would know what program you used, I think the reason photoshop is so called top notch graphic program is the price, its seems to be throughout lifes everyday things, how can a 'expert' graphic designer make graphics on a cheaper version program? just because i dont buy/wear Amani (probably spelt wrong) suits does it mean I am not a well dressed business man? its just stupid labelling. Its a fact psp can and does the same as photoshop, if not more but the image is its cheaper so it cant ...
I take my hat off to Jasc (psp creaters) they offer an amazing graphic program for a price that can be afforded by most, heck bryce is about 4grand (think it was bryce) where you can get a freeware landscape program (terragan) that can do amazing like like landscapes, waterscapes and both.

As for the psp is ok then for a 'beginner', phooey, psp is alright for the professonial, its ok for everyone.

psp comes standard with tubes, frames (add fancy frames to pics)effcts like buttonize, inner bevel, outter bevel, blinds, swirl .... and you can add aftermarket pugins, blade pro, super blade pro, eye candy plus all the other free ones. also the animation program that comes with it saves a lot of money (price up any animation program, they arent cheap)and has a wizard even - not that its really needed, but the choice of compression options is a nice/easy asset

the hardest part about learning to make 'real' graphics is layers and then masks, also another 'standard' option on nearly every program these days is unlimited undo's - oops photoshop the 'expert' program hasnt caught on to this, hmmm

sorry this isnt meant to be a debate, I use both programs, I prefer psp because of speed of loading, using, learning and availabity of add-ons, plug ins etc - each to their own, but a word of advice, pick one program and learn it properly, dont download or buy every one out there expecting to become a master of it over night, they all have their own methods, their own personality which takes time to master.

good luck

(I should spell check this, but I fear the spell checker would be over worked - sorry for the typos)

Quote: Originally posted by Busy
This is mainly answering Megan's PSP questions -

PSP started using layers, masks two color palettes in version 5, vrsion 6 came vectors etc, version 7 (i havent got) but is meant to be the most advanced graphic setup to date (waiting for adobe to catch up )

What I'm really wondering about is complex layer and masking - does it have equivalents for layer masks, quick masks, and layer effects? I know it has layers and some sort of masking capabilities but I'm just not sure how sophisticated they are.

Quote: hmmm, ok its true you dont see many job titles asking for PSP experience but if you worked freelance, contract or for yourself no one would know what program you used, I think the reason photoshop is so called top notch graphic program is the price, its seems to be throughout lifes everyday things, how can a 'expert' graphic designer make graphics on a cheaper version program?

Well, probably, and also because PS has been around for a long time so it became the tradition. It doesn't really matter which program is better or easier when it comes to this question - PS just IS the industry standard, but you're right, if you're working freelance or whatever noone is ever going to know.

Quote: Its a fact psp can and does the same as photoshop

Are you sure about that? Really, I don't know but I will find out shortly... Lets just hope this jasc site doesn't crash up my browser again...

Quote: psp comes standard with tubes, frames (add fancy frames to pics)effcts like buttonize, inner bevel, outter bevel, blinds, swirl ....

Yeah, tubes are cool, but I've never found a lot of practical uses for them. Are their frames looking less cheesy now? The ones in v. 5 if I remember right were pretty tacky. I also like how you get a preview of images in all supported formats in the open dialog box - PS only does .psd's and .jpeg's like that. What kind of cmyk capabilities does PSP have? I don't remember that either. Maybe once I download the trial I'll post a comparison article or something in graphics & design.

Quote: nearly every program these days is unlimited undo's - oops photoshop the 'expert' program hasnt caught on to this, hmmm

PS has had unlimited undo's since v. 5 I think. Or maybe it was 5.5.. don't remember. They were a little slow to get on that though.

Alright, sorry about all that.

I do have the PSP7 trial now so I can do some semi-qualified comparison. There are some really cool things in here, like vector text, built in shapes, lots of neat texture effects including built-in text textures. I don't see anything like quick mask here though, which is something I use a lot in PS - and layer effects! What happens if I want to put a bevel and drop shadow on a vector shape??? I'll have to figure this out...

Oh, and still no colour palletes? I usually like to work from a web safe or custom pallette in PS.

I was afraid of this - but like I said, I have both, like both, but prefer psp, I'm a jeans and t-shirt man, do I need to say more?

I'd be really interested in your findings of psp 7, as I don't have it, (only 5 and 6)and really think I need 7, maybe mistaken thou.

the color default palette in v5 and 6 are the basic ones, go to file/pretences (I think its around there) and choose the other palette (or maybe toolbar settings - sorry I forget) I usually just click on either foreground or background color and pick/make a color from there. For blending use the airbrush, for shading the gradient fill (not set at default, use the tool palette to adjust), the magic wand and eye dropper are the best functions personally

Psp 6 has vector text but its manual - you shape it, instead of preset shapes.

If you want to do bevel, drop shadow etc in vectors, select it and select effect, if your working in layers select the layer, select the vector (if not already unselected) then effect it, I haven't played with v7 so am not sure of the new layout, have heard some impressive things about it.

Does the mouseover image function do da give you the code (HTML & JavaScript) or just cuts it up?

how about the text option (choosing the font)? they went backwards on that in v6, you had to select from the drop down and choose a font every time you tried one, instead of the down arrow option in v5

It will be interesting, your review of psp even thou you maybe a lil biased towards your old faithful that's understandable

I have the psp 7 and I totaly love it, photo shop is very complex and as everyone knows to dang expensive. sure it can do a couple things PSP cant do but is that worth the 500 dollar difference %$#@ no. If you haven't seen the things that PSP7 can do you would be amazed at what 100 bucks can do for you. Plus you dont have to be a weight lifter to bring psp home. the box for photo shop is almost bigger then my car lol jk.

Ok thats my 2 cents

If you are serious about web designa and grapghics photoshop is the one to get because it is an industry standard, so most companies will want you to have knowledge in it rather than psp, but psp is good for just the hobbyist.

so just because I dont use photoshop to make graphics I cant make "industry standard" graphics?

what a load of pig snot.

Look at FP, its also "industry standard" but its not the best out there, DW can be more reliable, FP wouldnt even get in the top 5 editors as its so bad, even thou it is improving its still no where perfect.

The world is a farm, and we are all sheep.

if someone high up told everyone that bread is now known as flag pole, you'd all believe it, come on people, think for yourselves, buy, use, promote what YOU like, not what is "industry standard", why degrade yourselves?

Remember when windows was "the one and only" way to go? shock horrer, some of the "sheep" wised up and made netscape, linux, opera ...

this isnt directed to anyone person, and sorry for jumping off the topic - again but psp isnt just for the hobbiest.

Busy, no one is doubting ones ability to make good graphics using PSP. A good artist can really use either program. I personally use Photoshop because it is the best tool for me. A valid point is that it is better to say on your resume 'expert in Photoshop' than 'expert in Paint Shop Pro' for the very reason that you are against. Many would look at that and say, 'I see' and think no way am I going to hire this guy. Paint Shop Pro is just not used in the corporate world like Photoshop is.

Of course, then there are those that use Fireworks. Never could quite figure that one out.

No need to get back biting.
I use PSP, I like PSP, I was just trying to say that if you are doing graphics as a career you HAVE to know Photoshop. No one cares if you use PSP because no businesses use it.
I used PSP for the longest time until I got Photoshop and I still use PSP today, I interchange between programs because I have found that both have good features that the other doesn't.
Now come on, all love, no hate. The world doesn't need hate right now.

Sorry Dan208 and others, it just gets to me how people label things for no apparent reason.

One artist that came to mind when I read the previous threads was Pinoy7 - (I think it is), and mann-made-images I think is another awesome psp graphic artist, these guys (or gals) would be on mega bucks if thats what they did as a job, I doubt people would say "no thanks, I dont want you working on my designs because you use PSP (or fireworks or MS paint)".

I say let your work show the skills, not the programs you use.

*then thinks all the woman could burn their bras :)*

*busy puts some old 60's music on, walks up to Dan208 and says "sorry, no hard feelings, and starts to shake (to the music ) and with a smile shakes hands (cause thats what guys do) and agrees that this isnt the time for hate*

Well we ought to be able to discuss things like this rationally. So many people today get bent out of shape by the little things. It just not worth it.

The reason why we say that it is the industry standard is becuase that's just the way it is. It's not that we're saying that this is good or right or that it's because PS really is better. This is not to say that you can't make professional graphics in PSP - you can, it's just that this program isn't accepted by "the industry" for pretty superficial reasons.

When I was interviewing for my first co-op job I had put "word processing" on my resume instead of Word/WordPerfect. I figured that these programs are all the same so they employers should know what I mean. I thought it would be more impressive to show that my skills weren't tied to any one program. Sure enough, in my first interview the employers asked me "So can you use WordPerfect?" and I thought, "Well, duh!" I thought it was pretty obvious that these things are all the same but the employers didn't seem to know that. Another employer assumed that since I put Dreamweaver on my resume then I must not be able to hand-code (even though I had a long list of my coding skills on there too!).

So, employers want to know if you can use their preferred software package becuase, it seems to me, they often don't understand that skill isn't necessarily tied to a specific program. And there are other more practical reasons too of course.

Quote: come on people, think for yourselves, buy, use, promote what YOU like, not what is "industry standard", why degrade yourselves?

Because if I want to get a job that pays me money I have to "degrade myself" sometimes. I have to give the employers what they want. If you want to get a full-time job doing graphics work for a company (not working for yourself - then it doesn't matter) you're going to have to know Photoshop. Sure, I could put go into an interview and go on about how great PSP is, try to convince them that I can do just as well with it, but then I probably wouldn't even get in the door without Photoshop on my resume. This is just the way it is.

I haven't gotten around to playing with PSP 7 too much yet - had to go away for thanksgiving weekend... maybe I'll try it out again tonight.

love and use psp7 (except) as said previosly when masking or layering is done. photoshop is the way to go there really depends on what kind of image look i want. psp is faster for some photo for others i dont hate either one