Is there a script like this?

don't know of such a script off hand, but it doesn't seem like what ur asking for would be hard to make.

------------------
CLICK 4 some tested resources for making money $, hosting, and web promotions.
My Site got hacked, but i'm coming back?

Thanks for the fast reply. I looked through cgi-resources and couldn't find anything there... Anybody else know of something like this? It doesn't seem too hard to make so I am thinking there must be one around somewhere.

Thanks!
Brian

You want to take somebody else's content and frame it with your own ads? There are words for people like that and none of them can be repeated here without being censored.

Do a little reading before you join the ranks of the content-stealing scumbags. http://www.jura.uni-tuebingen.de/~s-bes1/lcp.html

Maverick,
I don't think that is really what he wants to do. I think he wants people to go off and explore other peoples sites that he is linking to but he wants there to be an easy way to get back to his site. I really don't think he will be stealing the content of other sites

As for the script, I have seen it around but have no idea where to get it from

Sorry

------------------
Thomas Minton
The JavaScript Place
Get paid $20 - $160 an hour for viewing adverts

I know of a MP3 Search script that does this and it could probably be modified to fit your site.

--Edge

Brian, do you mean somthing like at my site, when you click on a news story? If so I could show you the PHP code to do that.

------------------
http://www.wiredstart.com : The Technology Start Page

fyi -- about.com and askjeeves.com both do what is generally considered to be 'framing' and it is illegal without permission of the site being framed.

You post a link to me and say, can I keep your site within a 'viewer' window on my site, and I say 'yep, go nuts' -- no problem. You don't ask, or ask and I say, nope, then I can sue your butt off (allegedly).

Of course it is hard for a little guy to do this. The little guy (like me) chooses to include a framebreaker JavaScript to her code to force my pages out of the grip of the unscrupulous who wish to make their content using my hard work.

Someone else said this elsewhere on the board -- don't do it. If your site is great, people will come back. Like some other questionable tactics -- if they don't want to come back, this sort of jerking the user around won't change their mind, and if they do... well, you don't want to piss off your supporters, do you?

Suzanne

------------------
Zero Cattle
Suzanne
Tables DeMystified

quote:
Do a little reading before you join the ranks of the content-stealing scumbags. http://www.jura.uni-tuebingen.de/~s-bes1/lcp.html [/B]

Kind of stupid remarks if you ask me. Its been done my major websites like antionline and vintagegaming. The list just goes on. I myself is trying to find that script to. By the way never go to a website for legal help. It just a waste of time. If you want legal advice go to a real lawyer.

[This message has been edited by orlando_5 (edited 10 April 2000).]

Um... Maybe I should have been more clear about the reason I want to do this. A company called FunMark Internet has asked to join my site in a partnership, where we would link to various content that we did not have on our own site, as well as cross-promote, etc. He actually asked me to frame his content, coming from my site, because he wanted me to be able to gain advertising money also, and he is going to be doing the same with some of my content. Of course I would not do something like that without permission, regardless of whether it was illegal or not, because it is unethical.

And yes, RobP, that is exactly what I was looking for... if you could send me the code for that, it would be great. Thanks a lot!

------------------
Web Design - Hosting - Promotion - Programming
InfoStar Web Design - Click Here!

Thanks for clarifying, Brian! That app seems to be ideal and probably what it was designed for. I am glad to hear that ethics are a consideration -- sometimes it seems like there are few examples of ethical behaviour on the web (though really most people online are extremely ethical and helpful). It is always good to read good news!

Suzanne

------------------
Zero Cattle
Suzanne
Tables DeMystified

Brian, if this is with the permission of the other site, you certainly don't fall in with the "framing" scumbags. However, there's still one thing about it that bothers me. When one site does something like that, even with good intentions, it tends to spread to those who don't understand the true implications. A bunch of people are going to see it and think "site X uses this framing technique, so it's okay if I do it too." With so many clueless newbies setting up websites by copying existing sites, anything like this can set a dangerous precedent.

It's pretty interesting that this topic came up now. Just last night my site got "framed" by a content stealer. There's a site called askjesus.org that does something pretty similar. They've got a CGI script that will copy entire sites and "jesusify" them by replacing a few images with religious icons and by changing certain words to more holy equivalents like "you" to "thou". Then they display the stolen site inside their frames with their own banners top and bottom. Meanwhile, they're stealing your code and loading your images from your server and passing it off as their own original content. Last night somebody on my discussion forum commented that it had been done to my site. I was furious and immediately blocked access from that domain. But I brought up the topic on another discussion board and everyone thought it was funny and didn't seen to care that their content was getting pirated.

Check out: http://www.askjesus.org/ask.cgi?http://www.yahoo.com

or try it with your own site.

[wrong post]

[This message has been edited by orlando_5 (edited 10 April 2000).]

I am just curious and would love some input. Is what I am doing considered unethical by you? (ie- when you click on a news link, a link back to my site shows up). I would never try to be 'cheap' and put a banner up, but I am 'framing' other sites. Is it wrong?

------------------
http://www.wiredstart.com : The Technology Start Page

Wow. What a terrible site -- not only using a ****py midi (and no comment as to whether they paid up the appropriate royalties or got permission, either -- who represents the Beach Boys, anyway? I'm sure they will have something to say) -- but also seriously on the bad side of the law.

Robp -- check out some of the copyright links for more information and when in doubt ask. If you do anything that makes it seem like there is an affiliation between you and the linkee, frame their content in any way (putting your link on their site would be this) then you are violating copyright and CAN be in trouble. The CAN part is important. A lot of people don't mind or don't care.

A lot of people confuse the internet with a free for all riot where you can take what you please without consequence. The Open Source folks sometimes confuse things further. The problem is that if anyone says, THIS IS IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN, YOU MAY USE IT AS YOU WISH, which they have done for Open Source software, then they are giving up copyright. If someone doesn't say that *in writing* then they haven't given up copyright.

Everything on the web is copyrighted because of the age of the web. International copyright treaties date back to 1978. Especially in Canada and the US and Australia (some other countries joined the Berne convention later) anything you create in a tangible form (like saving a file to disk) is copyrighted.

Copyright is about control. As in you being able to say who can use your work, your content, et cetera.

For more information, check out some of the resources at http://copyright.cyber-crew.com and www.whatiscopyright.org and read up. Check with a lawyer *who is familiar with copyright and the Internet*. Check out the law reviews for news like the ongoing deep linking controversy.

Ignorance of the law is not a defense, so if you are in the position to use anyone else's work in ANY WAY other than a text link to their main url, you had better start contacting and getting permission in writing.

Better to cover your butt in the first place, before someone paints a target on it.

Suzanne

------------------
Zero Cattle
Suzanne
Tables DeMystified

quote:Originally posted by robp:
I am just curious and would love some input. Is what I am doing considered unethical by you? (ie- when you click on a news link, a link back to my site shows up). I would never try to be 'cheap' and put a banner up, but I am 'framing' other sites. Is it wrong?

Hey RobP, where did you get that script at? Thanks.

Good advice is never to trust a website for legal adivce. Get a real lawyer.

sage advice about getting a real lawyer orlando_5!

------------------
CLICK 4 some tested resources for making money $, hosting, and web promotions.
My Site got hacked, but i'm coming back?

Rob, I think you're in sort of a gray area here. While framing other work and passing it off as your own for profit is patently illegal and immoral, you're obviously not taking things that far. However, I still believe that what you're doing is in fact wrong. We all work very hard on our sites. We test graphics and color schemes and layouts at varying resolutions to get the exact appearance we want. When somebody "frames" our work, even if it's not for profit, it subverts our design by adding elements that we didn't add to our own pages. I certainly do not have an ugly gray strip running across the top of my pages and I resent anyone else adding it to serve their own interests. You're doing it to provide a doorway back into your site, so that's in your interests, and you're degrading the looks of the other site to accomplish it. Legal or not, IT'S WRONG!

robp, I agree with Maverick, i fact I almost always include code to break frames or force my page into its intended frameset on every html doc I write.

Also consider that your tiny adless, innocent frame that only contains a convenient link back to your site is frustrating for alot of people. I cant tell where I am and I cant bookmark the page and I would most likely end up opening the link in its own window.

Speaking of, I think that would be an acceptable solution, simply open the news links in a _blank window, and the user will not require a link back to your site.

Anyway, question for Suzanne re copyrights...

You stated
"if anyone says, THIS IS IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN, YOU MAY USE IT AS YOU WISH... ...then they are giving up copyright. If someone doesn't say that *in writing* then they haven't given up copyright."

Does that mean that my site is automatically protected by law simply because I dont state in writing that its free? I was under the assumption a copyright is like a patent, it needs to be applied for and approved. C, R, TM, patents, who can keep it all straight?

**I am not a lawyer**

But I have done a lot of reading on this. In the US and Canada and many other countries worldwide, there is a law about copyright. As soon as you put it into tangible form, it is copyrighted.

To make matters a little more murky, you can license part or all of your copyright away. It is part of most creative agreements -- and very important. Copyright is about control. Your creations are YOUR creations, and you can say when, where and how they are used.

There are icky details in there, check with a lawyer to make sure about specifics, but in general, if you made it, it's yours. If you made it with someone else's stuff, it's not, though, so be careful.

I tell anyone who will listen that if they are going to use the work of others (no matter what form, text, images, programming, music, art, whatever) -- ask first and get the permission in writing.

For things created pre-1978, copyright was applied for and registered. This has to be maintained. It is also possible to lose copyright if you do not rigorously defend your work from infractions. That means that you take up the fight with every person who nabs it, (though you can certainly do it in a non-confrontational manner if you suspect the person is simply unaware of the law), or you can lose the right to have copyright. So give it in writing, too, so you are protected.

*** falling off the soap box from talking too long ***

Suzanne

P.S. http://copyright.cyber-crew.com/resources.html has some great resources, follow the links for more. Brad Templeton is an especially good read.

------------------
Zero Cattle
Suzanne
Tables DeMystified

Well, I did add a link to "Open in full window" at the top frame, but I may just decide to open up in a new window.

So far I have emailed the news services, and said if they have a problem with what I am doing email me back. No repsonse back.

hmmmm

------------------
http://www.wiredstart.com : The Technology Start Page

I think it's no big deal. Lots of people do stuff like that, including the all-powerful group of dummies at Microsoft. Just look at Hotmail. They don't even give you the chance to open it in a new window! I'd think someone would have complained by now if it was a serious issue...

------------------
Gil Hildebrand, Jr.
Senior Web Developer, 4atcost.com

Tell ya what, Gil, link Microsoft in your frames and then let me know how many of their brutes knock on your door.

Suzanne

------------------
Zero Cattle
Suzanne
Tables DeMystified

generally, nobody's gonna sue u outright with contacting u first. just do it and see what happens. another company's site i had in frames one time just made it so that any referring url's from my site got a big old blank page, hehe.

------------------
CLICK 4 some tested resources for making money $, hosting, and web promotions.
My Site got hacked, but i'm coming back?

[This message has been edited by fairhousing (edited 16 April 2000).]

quote:Originally posted by Suzanne:
Tell ya what, Gil, link Microsoft in your frames and then let me know how many of their brutes knock on your door.

Suzanne

I think Microsoft has more things to worry about then sueing someone like Robp. Just won't happen.

In regards to the legal aspect. As long as you include the entire site and a “brake the frame” type link I don’t see why any site would care. If this was a major problem about.com, hotmail.com, ask.com, etc would all be out of business or would have changed there system.

Brian,

You can do this easily in PHP or ASP (as robp suggested). There are also quite a few CGI scripts. I’ve listed a few below.
http://www.verysimple.com/scripts/frameit.html http://freecgibin.yongfang.com/frameit.htm

Good luck,

------------------
Adam
AIS Internet Solutions
[email protected]
www.aisinternet.com

Thanks Adam! I needed that script. Its kind of silly to think that those big companies will sue a small site for these transgressions. They will have so many bad press that only the most stupid person in the company would even think of it.

Maverick,

Not an arguement, just a clarification.

Isn't your site almost completely based on someone ele's material?

Did you have a hand in producing Monty Python?

Do you own copyrights for all of those wav's?

Seriously, just wondering what your definition of original content is.

If you take someone else's work and compile it on your own page and then put a banner on it, what is the difference between that and someone who frames your page?

By your own definition aren't you a "content stealing scumbag"?

When people pull up each one of those pages to download a sound bite, and your banner loads, which pays you money, aren't you using someone else's content to pad your pocket?

Of course, if you have permission to use or compile all of that material, then you aren't, I'm just going by what I saw.

Well, it’s about time we had a moron in our forum. Your point is valid Mr. Moron. In one way or another almost every site takes content from someone or another site.
The idea of the web is more or less a large network. Anyone can tell you who work in a business that networking is an essential aspect of keeping the business afloat. Without making connections with others you will not succeed The Web is the same way in many regards. It is what it is because people send and receive data in a friendly manner, sites that are on-way don’t last very long; sites that truly network with others become the “big boys”.

------------------
Adam
AIS Internet Solutions
[email protected]
www.aisinternet.com

re: c, r, tm

also have been reading up on this. Copyright applies to pretty much anything you create and you DON'T have to state that a work is copyrighted for it to be. The fact that it was created gives you automatic copyrights against people who try to claim it as their own. Relying on this in court should prove to be interesting for both parties.

TM is trademark. Generally for things like logos, or company names pertaining to your buisness. You don't even have to register your TM, although it limits your claim to the TM. Even when properly registered, you are limited by where they were registered.

Examples of this are: You register your neat log in the USA, BILLNET WEB SERVICES (even simple type can be TM'd). This name could be used in China with no problems unless you registered your TM there as well. Also, someone could register BILLNET CHIMNEY CLEANERS here in the USA, and there wouldn't be a problem.

R, registered, is the registered version of TM. Once you register your TM, you are allowed to put the R symbol next to your logo, etc.

SM, is like TM, except that it is a Service Mark, for companies providing services. Web Hosting most likely falls into this catagory. BILLNET INTERNET might provide web consulting services.

This is just a little of what I have gathered (ie: the basics), and some of it might not be 100%, but it should be enough to get you going.

Nothing to do with the exact post, but someone had a question about it.