file upload question

Why don't you setup a FTP account and have them upload with an FTP client? Uploading huge files via the web is not the best way in my opinion.

I'd need a very simple, free ftp client that could be installed with very simple instructions. I've been looking. WS_FTP LE is not for businesses. It's also a little too hard maybe (these aren't programmers we're dealing with, they are office personnel).

No, but WS_FTP Pro, is. It's not really difficult, even for office personnel. However, many non-tech people like CuteFTP as a nice clearly understandable ftp program.

Quote: Originally posted by Suzanne
No, but WS_FTP Pro, is. It's not really difficult, even for office personnel. However, many non-tech people like CuteFTP as a nice clearly understandable ftp program.

You'd be surprised how many "laymen" have problems with ftp clients. Even in cases where I've managed to get *my* client familiar with things, invariably, one of *their* clients will run into trouble.

skelly, do you have PHP at your disposal?

I have the whole server (linux, apache, whm, cpanel flavor) at my disposal, with root acces (it's my server).

Problem also with WS_FTP pro is it is not free, and each client of his will have to purchase it individually. Not very inviting.

taff is definitely right about understanding. My client could do ftp with little guidance, but his admins and his clients' admins would have a tough time with it. Neither he nor I can afford to hand-hold each and every client, let alone each and every employee of every client. That's what makes this so tough.

Problem with php is that I'm not really familiar with it. I can edit xmb forums etc, but can't write my own code

lol, well I used to BE office personnel, so I'm not arguing that's not the case, but it's really not that difficult. CuteFTP is a good choice for office folks already familiar with using Windows Explorer to do the work.

HOWEVER, WS_FTP Pro has an Explorer function that works IN WINDOWS EXPLORER. It cannot be easier for an office person to use it, as it looks exactly the same, and is within the already familiar application.

S

Suzanne: Heh, what office did *you* work in? I would be surprised if most of those *I'd* worked with in the past knew what Windows Explorer was either.

Skelly: There are PHP file upload modules about that are pretty easy to configure. Unfortunately, you run into the same issue about the rights to sell it. If this is a commercial job, get a quote from a PHP developer, add your margin, and pitch it to the client.

taff, seriously... You think it's a good idea to upload 350MB via PHP? You won't have a progress bar or anything, do you think "office people" would wait for a website to load (or actually 350MB to upload) ? I still think FTP is the best way. skelly could create a simple page with screenshots and easy to follow step by step instructions on how to work the FTP client.

Quote: Originally posted by zollet
taff, seriously... You think it's a good idea to upload 350MB via PHP? You won't have a progress bar or anything, do you think "office people" would wait for a website to load (or actually 350MB to upload) ? I still think FTP is the best way. skelly could create a simple page with screenshots and easy to follow step by step instructions on how to work the FTP client.

hmmm, you may be right on that. I missed the "enough to fill up half a CD" comment - assuming that it is all one file. I have clients uploading to my server via PHP but nothing quite that enormous.

I'm just going on my own frustrating experiences trying to get clients using WS_FTP. The Explorer integration *should* make it a no-brainer, especially these days when networks are so commonplace. I've never used CuteFTP. Maybe I should grab a copy to check out it's interface.

I have a how to set up wsftp le and cuteftp on my html site, not sure if they are out of date yet, welcome to look at it and if works use it.

skelly, I don't see how this is your problem to solve. The problem belongs to one of your clients. To me, it looks like it's his job to sweat bullets and come up with a solution.

If it's a regular thing, they should invest in the software. If it's very rare, I would recommend the burn-to-cd-and-courier method, as it will solve all the headaches. Couriers are definitely something that office personnel are well acquainted with, I've found. That and endless faxes.

No bitterness. No bitterness.

Unfortunately, the burning the cd thing is what started this problem, and is why i was approached for a web-based solution. FedEx lost a shipment. Sleep centers usually do their own scoring, but occasionally get overloaded as there are only approximately 3800 registered techs qualified to score. This company is one of only a few in the nation who are trying to get these companies to trust them to outsource the work. In order to grow effectively, my clients company will have to outsource the work to other techs to work for them on a per-test basis. The plan will work but it's complicated.

If the data is shipped, it will take a few days to get to my client, a few days to get to the tech, a few days back to my client, and a few days back to his client. Quicker would add cost. Scoring these tests do not involve a large markup and will only gross $75-$99 per test. shipping costs would eat any profit, and the clients will have to wait too long.

That is also why we need to try to come up with a solution that will not add a per client or per upload cost. There's just not enough margin in it.

Unfortunately, a consultant won't stay in business very long if, when a client comes to him to come up with an answer to his problem, he tells him that it's not his responsibility and they need to find their own solution. If he comes up with his own solution, he won't pay me, he'll pay the other person who tells him. He doesn't know an tag from an alternator.

Getting the data moved is easy. I have several methods that would work, unfortunately the solution required has to have these attributes:

- No recurring costs to the transfer of the data.
- No added costs to his clients (ie WS_FTP Pro license).
- Has to be legal for a business to use (ie. WS_FTP LE is out of the question).
- Secure transmission (no need for encryption, but pretty safe).
- Simple enough that a comparitively inexperienced employee would have not trouble with following the directions.
- Relatively inexpensive to implement on the site.

See my dillema?

You could also find someone to custom-build you a Java FTP applet where all your customers need to do is to go to the URL and press YES on the popup that asks if they want to install the applet. This way you can tell the developer to make it really simple with the GUI that you want/need. Another option would be to pay someone to create a simple, easy to use and customized FTP client for Windows and put it on your website where people can download and install.

Just some ideas...

350 meg per user is a heck of a lot of data. How many users are we talking about?

It is hard to make guesses without all the details but need this data be transfered at all? How about a web-based scoring system of some sort where the "scorers" log in to your clients site to do their work. No idea if this is feasible for you, just trying to gove you options

A simple upload script is going to be very inconsistent with such a large file, net traffic, server loads, etc. will cause uploads to become corrupt or fail before completion. I think all your options have been clearly stated:

1) Use FTP
2) Develop a program that uses an applet/control on the client to connect directly to the server for more reliable uploads
3) Change the clients application to be web based, so instead of saving all the info to CD they login to a website and enter it there. Then all the data would be centralized.
4) Take your chances with upload script (not recommended for such large files)
5) Tape the CDs to pigeons...

I would go with number 2 but that will require some development.

Quote: Originally posted by skelley1
Unfortunately, a consultant won't stay in business very long if, when a client comes to him to come up with an answer to his problem, he tells him that it's not his responsibility and they need to find their own solution. If he comes up with his own solution, he won't pay me, he'll pay the other person who tells him. He doesn't know an tag from an alternator.

I didn't know you were a consultant. I thought you were simply a host.

Quote: Originally posted by skelley1
- No recurring costs to the transfer of the data.

Bandwidth is a recurring cost.

'I'm assusming that your client will be sending the data back. Would that be the case if FTP is the method chosen?

I have servers, design and consult, and host resellers with my extra disk space and bandwidth. I have enough clients that it makes more sense to own my own servers. The client in this case is not a webmaster, it is the ceo of a small business, and also a neighbor of mine.

File transfer cost is a consideration, but built in to the cost of his hosting, which would then go to me. I realize I can't make it free at all, but it would make more business sense to have the cost of transfer be billable to me and not passed on to someone else, especially if I can do it cheaper. I actually should have worded it tha there be no recurring charges external to the web solution, if possible. The cost of transfer would be even double what you listed above if they outsource the testing. When we hit on a solution, this transfer cost will be part of the decision. We would just like to make sure we are making the best decision, and not just a workable decision. My bulk bandwidth transfer cost is extremely cheap.

Sending the file back is also a problem. We may end up just having to have each client get something like WS_FTP pro and come up with or find a tutorial.

It may be an initial cost that would resolve a host of troubles and future costs, that's for sure.

I hear your dilemma, yes indeedy. The client is asking for something that cannot be done without incurring significant development cost, or paying for a third party license. You can't get totally custom solutions for free. :/

Good luck!

I'm wondering, are all clients on a fast connection? A lot of ISPs offer a lot slower upload speed than download speed. 350MB can take hours to upload/download depending on the connection speed.

But I guess it's better than waiting days for a CD.

SCP .. SFTP ?

My ISP limits upload to 40Kbps per stream.

I appreciate all the thought that everyone has put into this. I was hoping I was missing something simple. I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and let the customer know that this particular solution will require a bit more money than a basic website with a fancy form. Unfortunately the programming of this particular job is over my head, and I don't have time to learn it. I'll have to outsource this work. I wish I had an idea as to how much it would cost for a workable solution to this before I talk to him again. I would hate to waste the next few days finding someone reliable who could do it for a reasonable price and then find out it is out of his budget. Oh well, cost of doing business, I guess.

number 2 is my vote at this point as well. Maybe I'll get lucky and the data will be able to be broken into different parts.