Building My New Computer

Goodness... is this your first clone?

The manuals that came with them were very sketchy. There wasn't even a manual for the case...
I don't know that I've ever had a case come with a manual.

There is a cooling fan on the motherboard, but it is screwed down next to the processor.
What?!? Did the processor/fan come mounted on the motherboard? I don't understand the whole 'next to the processor' bit.

How do I remove the covers for the expansion slots on the case?? They seem to be stuck to the case... no screws.
If you mean the ones for the PCI slots, you just punch them out with a screw driver, and through them away. But only punch out as many as you will use. They are covered to help the air circulation and whatnot.

Should the motherboard be up on plastic screws? not touching the case?
The manual for the motherboard should explain istallation. That is, assuming you bought a case that fits your motherboard.

I think that the new P4's use different cases and power supplies. (That's why I bought an ASUS board for my P4.)

The cooling fan built into the motherboard is a pretty wimpy one. They have just started putting them on. You will still need a processor fan and maybe a chassis fan (depending if you want to overclock or not).

Generally the motherboard uses brass standoffs that screw into the case. The motherboard will sit on top of these standoffs. The standoffs have a screw hole in them so that a screw can be screwed into the top of the mb, securing it. If you notice the motherboard has some holes in it. These holes are insulated and isolated so as to prevent grounding.

The expansion slot covers are usually either snapped in or sometime secured with a piece of metal to the case. You either snap them out or take a pair of pliers and work them out.

Here is a PC building guide over at PCMech.com. They also have a tech forum that is real helpful if you run into building problems.

Thanks for the building guide mairving... It was much more informative than the others I've read online.
You were correct, the motherboard sat on the brass standoffs, and the screws went through the holes in the board, but there were a lot of unused standoffs and holes in the case, but no holes in the board. Is that OK??
Mark:
First clone
The manuals i read online said to refer to the manual with the case...
After reading a few manuals and looking at the pictures, I realized what the fan was... Chipset fan!

Now, the new questions:
The video card was a PCI card, and there is nothing in the video card slot... should I get a different type of card or will this work?
I've read a lot about overclocking.
The manuals say its bad, the people say its good.
There is a fan in the power box, a fan on the VGA card, a fan on the chipset, and a fan on the CPU(soon)... Any other cooling devices NECESSARY?
When setting the LED's to the motherboard, and the reset and power buttons, which wire is positive and which is negative or the ground?

Thanks for your answers.
Now all I need is the CPU fan (which I purchased and is on 2nd day air)
I hope when I power it up it doesn't all melt because I set it wrong!
Any and all replies are welcome!

Quote: Originally posted by nike_guy_man
Mark:
First clone

Isn't it fun!
My dad built me my first clone a few years ago. About a month ago, I built one for myself for the first time. I had my cousin there with me (he's built many), so I had plenty of help.

The manuals say its bad, the people say its good.
I've never overclocked a machine in my life. I never wanted to take the gamble.

There is a fan in the power box, a fan on the VGA card, a fan on the chipset, and a fan on the CPU(soon)... Any other cooling devices NECESSARY?
I have fans in my power supply, and on my CPU. I don't think there are any others. My AGP video, and my tuner card get quite toasty. And my 2 stacked HDs get pretty hot too. I should probably think about getting a case fan.

How do I not overclock??
Is it possible to accidently underclock it?
where can I get directions for overclocking?

It would be hard to overclock unintentionally. Some processors are better at overclocking than others. Overclocking can work quite well if done correctly. Cooling is the biggest problem to overclocking. It's funny that some chips with different processor speeds came off the same line. Anyway, PCMech is a good source for overclocking as well as Overclockers.com, Anandtech or Tom's Hardware.

If you are expecting a manual with your case, you are out of luck. If there is one, it is probably worthless. The only manual that you will need will be the motherboard manual.

You don't have to use an AGP video card but the performance is much better. They are pretty cheap too.

They usually send you some extra standoffs. I have quite a collection myself. The case comes with a bunch of different holes to accomodate different motherboard styles.

Tell us the specs of your system, too.

Ok... Everything together, all the fans ready... it seems ready to go.
First boot: Nothing. Power connectors reversed (positive and negative opposite)
Second boot: Nothing. ATX connection out of place.
Third boot: The fans start to go, the CD-ROM goes, and the "Voice Doctor" starts up and says "The processor may be damaged or incorrectly installed" I just added the fan, and I had some trouble getting that on, could I possibly have moved the CPU?
Also, the monitor stays in a sleep-like mode (the light is still yellow and not green) when I boot.
The VGA card is a PCI card, and it doesn't go in the VGA slot. Help!

There is no VGA slot. There are only PCI and AGP slots.

How did you get the power connectors on wrong? there should have been a tab or sumthin to prevent that.

Third boot: The fans start to go, the CD-ROM goes, and the "Voice Doctor" starts up and says "The processor may be damaged or incorrectly installed" I just added the fan, and I had some trouble getting that on, could I possibly have moved the CPU?
This isn't good news. Did you make sure that you stuck your proccessor in right? The reverse of polarity may have fried something too.

I found out it is NOT good news.
The processor was in correctly, but it fried anyways. I removed the fan and noticed that the entire surface was covered in silver particles... and the proccessor was not the same.
I'm going to get a replacement from the store.
Should it have sounded different when it fried?? It sounded perfectly normal to me...
Why did it fry??

If the fan is not hooked up, it could burn out pretty quick. Most processors unless you bend some pins can only go in one way. Usually if you fry one, you will see burn marks, not silver particles. Anyway the only way to tell for sure is to try it in another board.

The light staying yellow is normal, if the machine won't boot, since it has no video.

Quote: Originally posted by Mark Hensler
The manuals say its bad, the people say its good.
I've never overclocked a machine in my life. I never wanted to take the gamble.
[/B]

Overclocking is alright. I used to have a 466 celeron i could run at 582 without any extra cooling equipment, so I didnt have any problems. But never sauder to overclock, that is bad.

But, with your current luck, i wouldnt recommend it.

I never really saw a need to overclock. I've gone from a Cyrix 120MHz (YUCK!) to a P3 700MHz, to my current P4 1.4GHz. The 700MHz was top of the line at the time, the 1.4 wasn't but was a great deal. I've never had any software that taxed my system enough to consider overclocking it.

I think I did crush the core...
I'm pretty sure its broken, there's a nice sized chunk missing from the core.
How do I set the core voltage level?? How do I find what I need to set it to?

Thank you!

Well, after numerous calls and complaints to different places, I got directed to the presidents office of tigerdirect.com (where the MB and CPU came from) and they agreed to replace the MB and CPU...
Now, I hope I don't ruin it this time!!

Can you suggest a good tutorial on a first boot protocol?? Bios setup etc etc??

How much detail do you want?

TigerDirect is awful. Use Multiwave, definitely one of the best out there. I had a processor that I had for about 5 weeks that went bad. Their stated policy is that after 10 days, they will only exchange the processor but credit your card. Well I called them and they offered to credit it without me asking. My card was credited the day the processor was received back. Most places you have to call to make sure that you recieve your credit. I even had one place take two months, 3 phone calls, and about 10 e-mails before they issued my credit. Always use Reseller Ratings as a guide. It will rate online vendors and give customer comments. You can see that TigerDirect is below average.

As far as the 'first boot protocol', generally the BIOS will autodetect your processor, memory, etc. Starting off, the main thing that you will need to change in the BIOS would be the boot sequence. You can certainly come back and tweak it or o/c it later if you want.

What motherboard did you use?

Tiger has been fine for everything before.
Not to mention cheaper.
I priced out my entire system on mwave and it was much more expensive for the same exact products.
My motherboard is a Soyo k7tva pro

Keegan: How much detail can you provide??

Sytem Specs:
Soyo K7TVA PRO with 1 GHZ AMD T-Bird
PNY 512MB Memory PC133 SDRAM DIMM
Pine nVidia TnT2 32 MB PCI Video Card
Delta 52x CD-ROM w/ UDMA 33
Seagate 30GB IDE HD 8.0/100/5400/512
1.44 MB floppy
MS Windows ME (and Redhat 6.2 or 7.1, possibly Mandrake)
Ergonomic Keyboard
CG ATX Mid-tower case w/ 250 PS
NEC MultiSync 21" Monitor

If I understand your use of protocal you must mean a system of do's and don't that will work, or will cause trouble.

From start to finish parts should work by default

When you boot your system up you should not have to touch the bios.

Leave it at default, boot the system

If you get past post (The black and white screen) you are on your way to a system install)

If while installing your os it hangs during installtion more than likely you have a heat problem.

Your fan can be just slightly not seated on your cpu and it can cause your os installtion to hang.

If you get past installation, and you hit windows, or other OS you are doing pretty good.

If your modem does not work, check the bios (For ISA cards) In your sys specs list you do not mention a modem so I hope you have a nic for dsl or cable.

If you do, then do not worry about anything at this point, check system properties.

In Me, right click on my computer on the desktop and click properties, check your device manager for yellow exclamation marks.

If you have an exclamation mark, or several, it means your devices cannot communicate at the api of windows and has hung and stopped (Windows protecting itself)

Check your software you received, organize it and define which software is extraneous at this point and set it aside.

Locate driver disks, setup manuals etc and lay them out so you can readily see them.

Start at the top of the list and identify what component is stating it has an error and check your software. Normally the pci buss needs a bridge to irq share with various devices so I like to install the sound card (if it is a sound blaster) it normally has the bridging request to install the software thatyour other devices will need. Install that, reboot (9x) and then check system properties again. Take care of your display adapter, install the software for it. The reason I just dont install what is on the disks that are sent with parts is so I can control exactly what goes on the system and what does not. Trials, samples just bloat what I will have to back up later if something goes wrong.

If you run into a device problem that just will not resolve with brand new hardware you more than likely have a conflicting SOFTWARE driver. Uninstall everything that you have installed and try another installation direction (In other words, install the video card first, instead of the sound card. This can get around device problems.

Once you have your devices set up, install your antivirus software and you are set.

Network configuration needs to be considered totally seperate from device configuration. Take care of your other devices before spending time setting up your network connection.

Is this the type of detail you want in building a clone with known good parts?

K

Quote: Originally posted by nike_guy_man
Tiger has been fine for everything before.
Not to mention cheaper.
I priced out my entire system on mwave and it was much more expensive for the same exact products.
My motherboard is a Soyo k7tva pro

I assume that you mean Soyo K7VTA Pro. Let's compare prices:

Mwave Tiger
------------------------------------------------------------
Motherboard $89.99 $109.99
Processor 1Ghz $83.00 $ 89.99
------------------------------------------------------------
In addition, Tiger does not state whether the processors are OEM or Retail box. No difference in the performance but a big difference in the warranty. Some OEM processors only have a 30 day warranty. Mwave has never been good in some categories like monitors, fans, software. But they do have inventory on most items and don't drop ship like a lot of other ones have. I hate to tell you but I do see some problems with some of your components. The Delta 52x CD-ROM could be a problem. I ordered 6 of them to get a good price on them. Well I have 2 out of the 6 go bad. The Seagate HD could also give you problems. Also the performance of the 5400rpm drives is underwhelming. Seagate makes the best SCSI HD but one of the worst IDE HD's out there. Their failure rate is higher than IBM and Maxtor. I have also used SOYO motherboards twice and both went bad. Any way I have built probably a couple hundred systems over the years. Rarely have I ordered all of the components from the same place. Here's a list of some speciality vendors.

Cases - Directron They also have the round IDE and floppy cable and Neon lights.
Power Supplies - PC Power and Cooling - Great but expensive power supplies. My favorite is their silencer model. It is so quiet you can't tell that it is on.
Fans - Axiontech
Memory - Crucial non better for the money. Also for low end memory Upgrade Planet is pretty good.
Processor & MB, HD - I usually compare prices on PriceWatch and then see if Mwave is close. If they are, I order from them.
Misc stuff - like floppy drives, CD-ROMS, etc - Computergate.
Monitors - I used to get these from Onvia and Outpost when they both had free shipping. Now I usually just check around. Lately I have found some pretty good deals on Hitachi's site with some of their refurb units.

Is that all of your specs? I didn't see a NIC or a modem. Nor did I see a sound card. Are you going to use the onboard sound? From the specs that you have listed, you shouldn't really have any resource conflicts. You will probably find an updated driver for your sound card on Nvidia's site that is more current than the one that shipped with your card.

As for the prices: I bought a bundle with sound card included.
I am using my old NIC from an old machine that will be put out of use once I get this one running.
I read reviews on every part, and there were very few problems.
Now... I received my replacement CPU
Before I install it, I want to know one thing: should the fan easily click on or should it take some force to hook it on?
I've been trying to hook it on with the broken CPU, but its taken a lot of force.
Also, should I apply the heat-sink silicone compound? What does that do? Will I be able to remove it??
Thank you!

The clamp spring that holds the cpu on is what should get the force. Not the cpu fan itself.

Set the fan on top of the cpu (heatsink)

Use a flathead screwdriver and push down on the clip that hangs out of the heatsink and then you can steer the clip with the flathead locking it to the cpu socket.

K

Yuck Yuck Yuck
I installed the replacement CPU, booted it, got a memory/CPU check, and everything was fine.
I went to hit DEL to enter setup, but my keyboard was not functioning. Then the computer shut off.
I unplugged it, plugged it back, shut off the power, and back on.
This time I got the voice doctor again, but a longer message.
I still got the same CPU is damaged or wrongly installed, but the CPU is not burnt or chipped or cracked.
But it also said my lithium battery may be damaged or empty.
How do I go about replacing this or diagnosing the problem?

What jumpers should I check?
How do I clear cmos?
Does the surface the mobo sits on matter?
Thanks!
(I'm still new to this so thanks for your help)

All jumpers

Non-mettalic surface

Look at your manual for clearing the cmos, I think you short pins j43 etc but check your manual.

K

On most Soyo boards, you can reset the BIOS by holding down the INSERT key on boot. There is a jumper (JP5) that will also clear the BIOS. You short pins 2-3 for about 15 seconds to clear the CMOS.

I usually set the motherboard on the box that it came in to test but it does not sound like you are having a grounding problem. If you have another system that you can try to processor in that can help.

Ok...
Checked all my jumpers, all set correctly.
Pressed the power button.
Nothing.
Unplugged, plugged back in.
Pressed power. Nothing.
I walk away to get the manual, unplug it, plug it back in, it powers back on and tells me that my processor is damaged or incorrectly installed or my lithium battery is damaged.
I checked the manual about the message. There was nothing in there about a bad lithium battery message following the processor message.
What I can't figure out is why it booted once, stopped after the memory check, shut down, and now is telling me that my processor is damaged, or not starting at all!
Could I have misplaced a jumper and fried the battery?
How do I replace the battery??

You don't need to check your jumpers. You need to reset the BIOS by shorting pins 2-3 on JP5. This will return your BIOS to the factory setting. You can get a new battery. It is usually just a watch battery. But I would highly doubt that it is the battery. If it is the battery, you should RMA the motherboard rather than buy a new battery. What I would probably do is RMA the motherboard, then get them to send you a new one. Try the processor in the new mb. If you still get the same message, it is probably a bad processor.

to short the pins, is that with power on or off?
I can't even get any power to the computer any more.
I'm going to RMA the board and CPU (again)
The motherboard is probably the problem as the keyboard did not work and still will not work, and neither will the mouse. I didn't get far enough to check the speakers, USB, etc etc.

Power needs to be on to short the jumpers.

I would RMA that board a week ago.

K

Tiger is not going to replace it, but they will refund it.
So, I'm going to get a new board and processor.
Any suggestions? Over 1 GHZ, AMD preferred, supports 512 MB Ram, 30 GB IDE HD.
Thanks!

While there are detractors I have built many Asus K7T's lately with 1.4+ gigs anthlons.

I have 3 Asus board running under my desk right now.

Asus P5A-b running an old 450 (Linux) A P2B-F running a ps 350 with dual scsi 36gig lvds

And this workstations is a ASUS P3B-F with a p3 600 and a single 36 gig lvd and 512 megs of pc133.

I have built no less than 12 Asus systems in the last couple months and they are rock solid with different flavors of OS's, I personally recommend the asus for these reasons.

I think you can pick one up for under a hundred bucks.

K

Asus is a good board, no doubt. Although I swore that I would not have another one. I have a A7V and could not get a 1Ghz chip to run in the board. They apparently had some batches with this problem. I kind of like the EPOX boards now.

They did, the A7V's were reporting 1.4 gigs as 900's

The boards I ran into had other problems but I was able to work around them, like the ATA 100 driver problem, and the windows 2000 ata driver problem.

MSI has proved to be a good replacment for people not willing to tackle the A7V's troubles.

I will still buy asus, BAHHHH BAHHH! (Yes I know sheep)

K

Ok...
I've been talking with Keegan on ICQ, and he suggested the MSI k7t turbo limited motherboard.
On Mwave, I priced out that motherboard witha 1.1 GHZ AMD T-Bird to be $204 with a cooling fan.
Can anyone find a better price than that?

Also, I want to add a DVD-R. How do I install that in the bays? They wont go straight in. I have a CD-ROM also, but I want a DVD-R to add to it.
Thanks!

Quote: Originally posted by nike_guy_man
Ok...
I've been talking with Keegan on ICQ, and he suggested the MSI k7t turbo limited motherboard.
On Mwave, I priced out that motherboard witha 1.1 GHZ AMD T-Bird to be $204 with a cooling fan.
Can anyone find a better price than that?

Is that price with shipping? Newegg has that board with a 1.4Ghz processor for $207. Shipping is $15. Of course, don't forget that the fan does not ship with it.

Quote:

Also, I want to add a DVD-R. How do I install that in the bays? They wont go straight in. I have a CD-ROM also, but I want a DVD-R to add to it.
Thanks!

What do you mean it won't go straight in? If your case has a extra bay (most ship with 2), then you can knockout the front and install it there.

Quote:
Of course, don't forget that the fan does not ship with it.

What do you mean?
Why doesn't the fan ship with it?
There are extra bays, but they have a metal covering on them, in addition to the front covering. How do I remove this?

Just punch out the metal plate.

Most OEM chips don't come with a fan. Only the retail versions come with a fan. The stock fans are pretty wimpy anyway. Get an orb fan. They are pretty good for the money.

Ok...
New MSI K7T TURBO Limited MB with new AMD 1.0 GHZ processor.
Before I install it, should I put the silicone heat-sink compound on the CPU?
Directly on the CPU then stick the heat sink on?

Just goop it up pretty good on the processor before you mount the fan/heat sink.

Yes!
Finally, with the new MSI board and Duron 1 GHZ processor, it works. It finally works.
I installed Windows ME, but I forgot to partition it so I could install RH 7.1 next.
Partioned, installed ME, installed the Works Suite 2001, rebooted, and Linux is loading now.
On my old comp, it took 1 1/2 hours to do a minimal install... this one is 80% finished after 5 minutes!
I'll be back if I have any problems!

Just remembering something:
On the first boot, I was checking the "PC health status" and my CPU temp was over 200F. I shut down immediately and let it sit for a while, then checked my fan connectors, and put the fan back on.
The next boot it sat at 105F, then rose to 110, and was stable there.
After installing windows and RH 7.1, it is at 114F. Is this a good temperature?
Currently, i'm running at 1.05 GHZ with a heatsink/fan built for up to 1.2 GHZ. Should I risk pushing it?
Thanks for all your help during my building and installations!

I am using an ASUS motherboard with an Intel 1.4GHz. My ASUS motherboard came with a utility to monitor (PC Probe) all kinds of stuff..

Right now (after being on but idle for half a day) the CPU is at 41C/105F. The Maximum CPU Temperature Threshold is set at 100C/212F. When the temp gets to the threshold, the mother is suppose to do something (shutdown the PC, I think). The utility also has 'Smart Fan Control', where it will adjust the fans speed based on the CPU temperature.

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